What if guns and ammo were free?

[Andara Bledin]

... from the nonexistent threat of confiscation.

This isn't true. While it's rare, there have been actual cases of gun confiscation in both the US and Canada. The latter of which notably ditched their registration requirement as being expensive and utterly useless for anything but being a bureaucratic money-sink.

[Signmaker]

Personally, I would single handedly create a localized ecological disaster zone by virtue of all the lead I would send downrange, given an unlimited supply of ammo. My gun range would be reduced to a shallow, smoking crater, lined in a tall berm of spent brass, with me giggling like a child at the center of it all, slapping a fresh mag into something black, plastic, and full-auto. Entire communities would qualify for FEMA aid, due to the large cloud of burnt powder moving across the land. Eventually the spent brass would pile high enough to collapse in on itself, the heat from burnt cartridges fuzing the brass together into a protective sphere, where I would hibernate, slumbering until the time spoken of in dark prophecies.

...hi, my name is Signmaker, and I have a gun problem

Prove it.

Prove there would be a significant increase in gun violence, specifically illegal gun violence.

Currently, it requires an amount of effort greater than zero for an asshole to get their hands on a gun. By reducing the amount of effort required closer to zero, you will increase the number of assholes who get guns. More assholes with guns = more gun violence.

What may happen though, since all things are equal, and also more good people will be getting guns that did not before, the total level of violence might actually decrease, with an increased share of the remaining violence involving guns.

It's pretty much the same thing as comparing US (lotsa guns) to England (very few guns). Total levels of violent crime are ballpark to one another, but the US has a higher percentage of violent crime that also involves firearms.

To change the context a bit, if you made fudge brownies free to everyone, the ratio of obese-to-healthy people probably wouldnt change much, but the percentage of obese people who overeat on fudge brownies would increase dramatically.

[wolfie]

Microstamping.

Nevermind that the firing pin is a consumable, so the first replacement would remove the feature (which is specifically noted as not defeating an identifying mark in the state, but may be a federal offense should the feds rule the other way on that because of legislation about serial numbers) and that police already don't even use serial numbers on recovered firearms because they do nothing to actually solve crimes.

WTF? There's a limited amount of energy available in the mainspring, and rigging the firing pin to stamp an identifying number into the primer (as opposed to the current practice of simply making a single large dent) is going to reduce reliability - there might not be enough energy applied to a single point on the primer to FIRE IT.

[AccountingDrone]

The only thing I can think of is the ban on semi-automatic rifles with detachable magazines, but Governor Brown actually vetoed that one.

Nice but effectively useless - I have the same model long arm that Simo Hayha [add umlauts to your hearts content] called the White Death used to kill several hundred Soviet troops in the Winter War - and it has a small internal magazine and is bolt action. Rob is the better shot of the two of us, and he is militarily qualified as expert [top level of 3 qualifications] though shooting on the farm I fall into marksman. [shooting is a great tension reliever, and we believe in practice to keep the ability to control the weapon. We regularly shoot both hand guns and long arms, and have done the NRA safety courses for handgun and hunter safety.]

There are a lot of us here down south of you. You just don't hear about us because the idiots who shoot themselves accidentally or do insane shit are the ones that get the newsprint/video time.

[Andara Bledin]

WTF? There's a limited amount of energy available in the mainspring, and rigging the firing pin to stamp an identifying number into the primer (as opposed to the current practice of simply making a single large dent) is going to reduce reliability - there might not be enough energy applied to a single point on the primer to FIRE IT.

It actually appears from testing that it doesn't reduce firing reliability to any measurable degree.

There are huge debate on whether the stamping itself last for more rounds that many people go through in a single session at the range.

[Tanasi]

Micro-stamping is so much BS it's beyond laughable. If one was to knowingly buy a firearms that has micro-stamping then that feature could be defeated in minutes especially by those that are familiar with very basic gun-smithing skills.
A little history on the NRA: It's an organization that was created out of the back-wash of the American Civil War. Several damnyankee generals were disappointed by the firearms knowledge and marksmanship skills of their soldiers, whereas the southern troops were moderately to highly skilled almost to a man. That little bit of knowledge kept the southern forces on the victorious side on the battle fields despite being greatly out-numbered. Also little know was the south kept maintaining their state militias. (My great-great-grandfather was a General in the Tennessee State militia and later died in captivity.)
Anyways Ambrose Burnside was appointed the first president of the NRA and his mission was to educate the common man in firearms and marksmanship and to establish competitions. It was nearly a 100 years before NRA took a national interest in politics and that was because of attempts to ban firearms. There is two parts of the NRA: The NRA which continues it mission to educate and hold competitions and NRA-ILA which is the political wing. Believe it or not but the NRA as a whole is considered a civil rights organization in somewhat the same light as NAACP.
I'm a NRA life member, a NRA certified firearms and safety instructor, a Chief Range Officer and a Tennessee state certified handgun instructor. I by no-means claim to be a firearms expert but I do claim to know a little-bit about them. I've competed on the local, state and national level of shotgun, rifle and handguns. I've won very little but I had a lot of fun doing it.

[wolfie]

There are huge debate on whether the stamping itself last for more rounds that many people go through in a single session at the range.

But that's part of the plan - if the stamping die on the firing pin wears down to illegibility in a session at the range, it means the evil gun nut has deliberately obliterated a serial number - FELONY!. Excuse me if I sound paranoid, but am I being paranoid ENOUGH?

Several damnyankee generals were disappointed by the firearms knowledge and marksmanship skills of their soldiers, whereas the southern troops were moderately to highly skilled almost to a man.

I've heard a European version of this. A German ruler (identity varies with the telling), after hearing that the Swiss have a certain number of militia (IIRC, 1 million), asks a Swiss ruler "What if I bring up an army of 5 million men?". The Swiss reply: "Each of my men would fire 5 shots and go home."

[Andara Bledin]

But that's part of the plan - if the stamping die on the firing pin wears down to illegibility in a session at the range, it means the evil gun nut has deliberately obliterated a serial number - FELONY!. Excuse me if I sound paranoid, but am I being paranoid ENOUGH?

Except that, as I mentioned before, the state law explicitly states that the microstamping is not a serial number for that purpose, and thus, even it's purposeful removal is not a crime.

But because there are a grand total of zero guns that I know of that even have this feature, it's a backdoor ban.

[Tanasi]

The micro-stamping reminds me of of the ballistic ID brass that some states required on new pistol purchases. For years dealers sent in the ID brass provided by the OEM to their respective states and those states physically stored them and data based them in hopes of solving a crime. Thing was this the data base was rarely accessed and no one single crime was solved using it. I've wondered how much money was wasted on this "feel good" law.
Also the Virginia one gun a month law that was supposed to slow down guns being brought into NYC. I often wondered why the good people of VA should be restricted for what seemed to be ungratful and uncaring damnyankees.

[HYHYBT]

So the obvious question is *why* wasn't the data used.

[s_stabeler]

The micro-stamping reminds me of of the ballistic ID brass that some states required on new pistol purchases. For years dealers sent in the ID brass provided by the OEM to their respective states and those states physically stored them and data based them in hopes of solving a crime. Thing was this the data base was rarely accessed and no one single crime was solved using it. I've wondered how much money was wasted on this "feel good" law.
Also the Virginia one gun a month law that was supposed to slow down guns being brought into NYC. I often wondered why the good people of VA should be restricted for what seemed to be ungratful and uncaring damnyankees.

that's because it has limited usefulness. ( off the top of my head, such a database can only tell you what gun a crime was done with. you would need the actual murder weapon) the micro-stamping is slightly more useful, in that it can be tied to an individual gun. However, in practice, if it would usual be worn away by a single session on the range? it won't help.

I DO think that there should be sensible restrictions on firearms ( namely: are you a violent felon? are you mentally ill?- and not all mental illnesses should count, just ones that would mean they would be prone to a shooting spree) but aside from that? I dunno.

[Andara Bledin]

The vast majority of gun rights types are perfectly fine with a reasonable universal background check situation; they just wish one would be proposed. Most of what comes up are various utterly unacceptable measures wrapped up in a UBC trying to sneak through.

[s_stabeler]

well, to be fair, I can see some limits on what you should be able to buy. ( which is why I DO support a ban on full autos- there is little legitimate use for them. I WOULD however, have a more minor punishment for those who have a faulty semi-auto. ( basically, if you have a faulty semi-auto, if you get it fixed, then no other punishment. If you don't get it fixed...)

[Gravekeeper]

This is a peculiar what if. Also, I am Canadian and am aware of what the NRA is and isn't. >.>

Yes, the NRA does want more money in its coffers as it is a political organization. It literally grades individual politicians and assigns them a ranking based on their voting history and stances on gun control. Then based on that ranking, contributes money to their campaigns.

The ranking is thus:

A+: "Excellent voting record" and "vigorous effort" on gun rights.
A: "Solidly pro-gun," backed NRA on key votes or has positive record on gun rights.
AQ: Pro-gun rating based solely on a questionnaire and without a voting record.
B: May have opposed "pro-gun reform" or backed some gun restrictions.
C: "Not necessarily a passing grade." Mixed record" on gun votes.
D: "Anti-gun" supporter of "gun control legislation" who "can usually be counted on to vote wrong on key issues."
F: "True enemy of gun owners' rights."

The NRA spent 3.4 million dollars on supporting Romney last election. They spent 15 million total campaigning against Obama, including paying for negative attack ads, etc. This is the most they've ever spent to oppose a presidential candidate in history.

Currently, they pretty much straight up oppose any gun legislation regardless of how minor or how blatantly common sense ( Such as closing the gun show loop hole that lets people who are not allowed to own guns purchase guns ). While trying to repeal those laws already in effect. Such as the one that prevents firearms from being allowed in a school zone. They even oppose bills that simply permit Federal research into firearm safety and gun violence.

So yeah, they pretty much knee jerk oppose anything that even remotely comes near their guns. Even if its blatantly common sense things like background checks, gun trafficking, prohibiting the sale of firearms to known or suspected terrorists, prohibiting the sale of firearms to people who were convicted of violent crimes in other countries, etc etc.

The training and safety aspect of their organization is admirable, but its political lobbying side is aggravating and unreasonable.

Also, it's interesting to note that many, possibly most, accidental gun deaths are caused by the police and not citizens. Our training requirements are abysmal, and really do need to be made stricter.

I don't think that's the case just by sheer numbers alone of gun owners vs police officers. Although US police do have a pretty unsettling track record for the rate of which they are shooting or accidentally shooting people lately.

I'm kind of curious as to what the training requirements are now with US police and how it compares to the police up here.

[s_stabeler]

actually, there IS a good reason why there would be a discrepancy: police officers don't actually use guns all that much ( the average police officer will get through their entire career without needing to fire their gun except in training) and so tend not to practice with their guns much, and it IS a perishable skill. gun enthusiasts tend to actually use their guns down at the range. That builds accuracy.