Old Koreans vs. NYC McDonald's

[ExRetailDrone]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/15/ny...t-and-sit.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/17/ny...s.html?hp&_r=0

So, some senior citizen immigrant Koreans have been using a NYC McDonald's as their own little community center. They apparently buy a cup of coffee (for a little over $1), and then proceed to sit there for hours and hours and hours. The employees and manager are getting sick of it as it's affecting their business, as other customers complain or ask for a refund because there's no place to sit. This has been going on for years. Recently, the manager has started to call the cops about these people basically trespassing, as they either won't leave when asked to, or leave and then just come back 10-15 minutes later. Word of this has spread through the Korean community, and has even hit the Korean media back in Korea, and people are flipping out, calling it racism and blah blah blah.

Now, I've lived in Korea for the past 2.5 years. I can't count the number of times I've heard something along the lines of "Please understand my culture", "That's how things are done in Korea", etc. And as much as some things here bug the shit out of me, I really do try to be respectful of the culture here. I'm in their country, it's only right, and it's not my place to try to start change as I'm not going to be here long-term anyway. Well, apparently this attitude doesn't hold for Koreans living in other countries. Americans should apparently respect Korean culture and realize that senior citizens are "treated like gold" in Korea (no, they're not) and this McDonald's should let these people continue to stifle their profits because we should respect them simply because they're old. They apparently don't care that this way of thinking is not part of American culture. It's not that we don't respect our elders, but America is a hugely capitalist society and business owners have every right to kick out people for loitering for hours and barely buying anything. It has nothing to do with race, but some of the Korean community leaders in NYC are turning it into that.

Oh, and to make things even better... there is a Korean community center nearby this McDonald's and the director has recently renovated the basement to make it into a more social area with $0.25 coffee. But no one goes there.

[s_stabeler]

I'm sorry, but respect for your elders does not mean old people are permitted to be an asshole. Second, respect doesn't mean allowing somebody to walk over you. I respect my parents- but when they pull an asshole move, I will grumble about it.

Also, as has been said, Koreans might deify their elderly. this is America (or, for me, the UK)- if WE were in Korea, you would expect US to obey YOUR customs. Please offer us the respect of observing OUR customs when you are over here. Feel free to deify your elderly in your own home. But in a place of business, you sit down, eat your food, then leave. Go to the community center if you want a chat.

also, one final point- these assholes, separate from anything else, when tossed out, walk around the block, then come back. sorry, but the sense of entitlement I get off these assholes pisses me off.

[Pixilated]

While I agree these folks are out of line, can we please not slam all members of a group because some are idiots ... and that includes the ones calling the store's actions racist. I would bet you would find a lot of local Koreans who would understand perfectly why the store is doing what it's doing.

I am very supportive of multiculturalism, for a variety of reasons. But I do agree there comes a point where people have to be told, "Yes, that's fine if that's how you do it in XX. But YOU ARE NO LONGER IN XX AND THIS IS NOT HOW WE DO IT HERE. This store is a for-profit place, you are taking up space for very little money and it is affecting their bottom line. There is a lovely cultural centre, which has CHEAPER coffee and where you will be more than welcome to go sit for the entire day if you wish. Here's a map."

No doubt they are used to this particular place and for some seniors (NOT all) change can be difficult and unpleasant. However ... that's life.

[HYHYBT]

One of the McDonald's I used to work in now has signs up which, while I forget the wording, basically say you can only stay half an hour. The design exactly matches some I remember from their catalog for things like no outside food, refills on same visit, etc., so I can only assume they're both officially allowed and readily available. And if there's a clear, posted rule and it's applied to everyone all the time...

[Gravekeeper]

This is pretty major assholism and entitlement frankly. They're also completely unrepentant about their behaviour and know full well its wrong. They have plenty of other places to go but choose to actively damage business for this one location.

Considering its been going on for 5 years they should be kissing McDonald's feet for the level of patience they've been shown. I would have had them arrested for trespassing by now.

[gremcint]

It's the exact same thing that people have been doing with coffee shops to leech wifi, it's just a bunch of people happen to fall into a specific demographic here. I say kick them out.

reading the articles I notice not once does Mcds mention race it is only the reporters or the Korean's themselves. They are acting like they have a right to someone's private property and they don't. The only option is to start banning them and that'll lead to a really big headache.

[Sarah Valentine]

If they have to pass ACTUAL community centers and senior centers on their way to the McDonalds just to treat that location as one, then kick them out they have options that aren't hurting the restaurant. They eat full meals elsewhere and just get small fries or a coffee as an excuse to sit down and stay for hours, how the hell has this happened for 5 years and the location not closed? Doesn't it take a lot of money to keep a location open, with these entitled assholes buying very little (and very cheap) stuff how does the location make enough money to stay open? It's a restaurant a place people go to eat not hang out all day and night, if you want a place to treat like a community center then go to one of the ACTUAL community centers you passed on your way to the restaurant!

[ExRetailDrone]

One of the McDonald's I used to work in now has signs up which, while I forget the wording, basically say you can only stay half an hour. The design exactly matches some I remember from their catalog for things like no outside food, refills on same visit, etc., so I can only assume they're both officially allowed and readily available. And if there's a clear, posted rule and it's applied to everyone all the time...

One of the articles I've read said there is a sign posted stating a 20-minute rule.

The amount of entitlement is, indeed, ridiculous. The racism card is being played all too frequently lately when it has nothing to do with race, and this is yet another instance of it. Anyone sitting around for 8+ hours when only buying minimal items should and would be kicked out, but because these people happen to be part of a minority class, they scream racism. And the vocal minority is not helping things. Frankly, I have found many (not most) Koreans in Korea love to play the victim, and this gives them one more reason to do so. I feel bad for all the Koreans who find this childish behavior embarrassing yet can't do anything about it.

[Tanasi]

In the small town I grew up such a group is called the "Dead pecker club" my Dad's term not mine. The weather determines where they meet. If it's hot or cold them meet at the farmers co-op and sit in a big circle and drink coffee and tell lies. The co-op management doesn't seem to care as they're using a empty part of the store and club members have brought their own chairs and pay for the coffee that is "free" to everyone employee's and customers alike. The down side is most chew or dip tobacco and while there are several spittoons it becomes a mess. During nice weather they meet at the town gazebo and do the same thing except they have no coffee unless they tote it with them but they do whittle, trade pocket knives and old guns. On Wednesdays their hangout is the stock barn to while away day and still other days it's the local Hardee's. Dad would probable have stayed all day if Mom had let him but she had things to do and didn't like stopping in the middle to drive him all over creation. My In-laws go to the local senior center after they've been to the mall to walk, get their blood pressure taken and had coffee. From 8 to 11am you're either in the store or in the middle of the aisle because some blue-hair will run you over if you linger just outside the store.

[Pixilated]

If there is a sign indicating a 20-minute limit, and if it's applied to all, I'd love to hear these EWs and their apologists explain exactly how it's racism when it's applied to them. But of course nobody is going to ask them that ... probably not even the media, who should be the ones asking tough questions like this.

[MadMike]

I saw the same problem at this restaurant at the beach. It was a nice little barbecue place right on the boardwalk, and they had laptops bolted to the counter for the customers to use. They were generous enough to even let non-customers use them, but the limit was something like 10 minutes. And for actual customers, there was no limit. You were free to use them as much as you wanted from the time you sat down to order, up until you were done eating.

My wife, my son, and myself decided to have dinner there one night, and we enjoyed having the laptops to play on. Shortly after we sat down, some jackass parked himself at the other end of the counter, started playing on a laptop, and didn't order a thing. He was still there when we left. Why they didn't say anything to him, I have no idea.

[protege]

In the small town I grew up such a group is called the "Dead pecker club" my Dad's term not mine. The weather determines where they meet. If it's hot or cold them meet at the farmers co-op and sit in a big circle and drink coffee and tell lies.

Sounds like my Grandpa and his buddies. For years, they'd meet at McDonald's for coffee in the morning. Staff didn't care, since they paid for the coffee and never left a mess. It was a very small town, and because of Grandpa's connections (church, the Lion's Club, etc.) he knew everyone. Most of the time, they'd claim one of the corner booths, and shoot the breeze. Sometimes, I'd go with him, since it was a "big deal" to get to go

But, these guys, are just dicks. They know that they're did wrong, and they're playing the race card in attempting to get away with it.

[Panacea]

There's a Mcdonalds in my area that was also the local watering hole for some local seniors . . . all of whom were as white as I am.

They'd buy their coffee and jaw away for hours on end.

It was a busy location too, near the community college where I work (that's why I saw them all the time; went there for lunch alot).

Manager never did anything about it. They weren't obnoxious, they paid for their coffee, and space didn't seem to be a problem that I saw.

The only reason it stopped is because the location was torn down to widen a road.

There's another location I go to with my TKD buddies once a week. We get a Coke or snack (Sherry buys dinner) and jaw for three or four hours, often until after the dining room is closed (drive thru is 24 hours). We're quiet, we don't make a mess. We asked the manager if our staying late was a problem, he said it wasn't so we don't worry about it.

I'm not sure what's up with these guys in NY. I suppose if they were creating a disruption it'd be one thing. But if they're just sitting there, what's the big deal?

[Kheldarson]

I'm not sure what's up with these guys in NY. I suppose if they were creating a disruption it'd be one thing. But if they're just sitting there, what's the big deal?

The article says that the store is losing business because the seniors are taking a majority of the seating. And since the seniors are spending bare minimum, that's going to add up quickly.

And, in any case, they've been asked to leave by the business. Means right, wrong, indifferent, they're trespassing at that point.

[Jetfire]

Generally speaking, sitting time limits are a rule that a business can chose if they want to enforce. If a group isn't causing a disturbance, and there is plenty of other seating for other customers, then there usually isn't an issue. (And if it's a regular group during non peak ours like your TKD group, the business would probably like them, for the repeat business and making the business look busy and safe).

In the OP's case though, it sounds like the group was large enough to take up seating needed for more customers, so their welcome was worn out. The McD's was well in their rights to ask them to buy or leave.