Imagine a world where "gay" is the norm and "straight" the deviation from the norm...

[Kheldarson]

I agree with Greenday. As per unofficial Fratching rules, this means you are disqualified and have to leave the island.

I thought it meant the apocalypse was coming...?

[Gravekeeper]

I thought it meant the apocalypse was coming...?

Thats if Andara agrees with both of us too.

[Andara Bledin]

Thats if Andara agrees with both of us too.

Woe, woe, the end is near...

I haven't watched the video and have only been skimming this thread, but from what I've seen, a bunch of people are discussing the movie, it's themes, execution, and the basic premise while mjr is trying to focus on a side topic that nobody else is interested in discussing in this particular thread.

[s_stabeler]

not to mention that the breeding season might actually be enough- because it's explicit that then, straight sex is ok. IOW, it's supposed to imply that if straight sex is purely for producing a kid, it's OK.

the chances of such a population being sustainable, however, is, as has been mentioned, unimportant. the POINT of the video is to make you think about how you would feel if it was your sexuality that was the one that society calls deviant. For all that the specific sexuality matters, it could easily be a world where the majority of the world were gay, and there was still a prejudice against gay people.

The idea is to make people think- if this is so ridiculous, then why is prejudice against gay people acceptable either?

I will say, though, that i have a nasty suspicion that at least one group of bigots is going to say the film's world is what pro-gay rights people want.

[LewisLegion]

I want to start out with a few points, some for those that don't know me as my login name can be misleading:

1-I am a cisgender woman.

2-I am openly gay.

3-I have watched the entirety of the movie in question, as have several of my friends.

Ok, that said, here's my actual comment:

In watching this movie, and any other, yes, there is a necessary suspension of disbelief. You can poke holes in any movie, real or fictional, if you look hard enough. Would a population and culture like that in the movie actually be viable/survivable/etc? Personally, I think yes. When I heard the mention of breeding season, I just assumed that human beings in THIS reality had evolved along the same lines as quite a lot of animans- that is, when procreation becomes necessary, they have a particular time of year when mature females go into 'heat' and mate solely for the purpose of procreation. And if humans in the film evolved along the same lines, then the rest of it clicks together just fine.

If human beings in this world have a set breeding season, wherein the females go into a sort of 'heat' (which usually comes with a strong desire to mate and is the only time they are actually fertile) and wherein males are hormonally drawn to this, then mating for the purposes of reproduction between opposite sex partners becomes a simple issue, even if those partners are gay. They simply have a very strong hormonal reaction during a certain time of the year that insures both are able to perform with one another for reproduction.

Outside of that purely hormonal drive during that season, the genders retain affectionate, pair-bonding and romantic attachments only to members of their same gender (usually) with a minority that has such an attachment to members of the opposite gender.

Sex in human beings serves more than just procreation. People are social animals and have sex to make and reinforce bonds, for pleasure, and other reasons than just 'babies'. This flavor of human being in this AU of the film merely have their sex drives separated out more strictly due to having evolved with a specific season in which they are fertile (as opposed to being fertile all year round). Thus, they are driven to mate by hormones for reproduction only during a certain time of year, and the rest of they year they indulge in the OTHER aspects of sex- pair-bonding, romance, pleasure, etc. generally with individuals of the same sex. Being civilized, women are not forced to mate and have children if they don't want them, and they are still allowed to select whom they will mate with to father their children. Perhaps there are birth control medications that can be taken to halt or regulate raging hormones during the breeding season. Perhaps even the men can take a medication that reduces their reaction to a female 'in heat'. Or perhaps there are religious and ceremonial segregation rituals that isolate females in heat or that surround the mating. One could imagine all sorts of cultural, religious, secular, and imaginative ways that such a society could function in a civilized manner- and function well.

In this AU it is most likely the women pair-bonds who raise the children just because of this evolutionary tack, but it may be that the male pair-bonds are known to adopt and raise children as well. This is not terribly common but allowed and winked at, though there may be Phelps types organizations out there yelling that 'children are entitled to be raised by mothers' and that 'children who are raised by mothers do better than those raised by fathers' and 'it is against the natural order for men to raise children, it damages them', etc.

Regardless, that entire bit is a sideline to the movie at best, and certainly not the POINT of it. The movie wasn't made to see how such a society would evolve and or function, the movie was made so that people could see things from a different perspective and perhaps gain a greater understanding and empathy for other human beings.

I can say that neither I, nor anyone else I spoke with that watched this movie, based their experience of it on their status as a majority or a minority but rather instead their status as gay or straight.

That is, we didn't watch the movie and say 'well, I'm a minority/majority in the real world, thus in this fantasy world I would be a minority/majority too, even if my orientation is reversed to make that happen'.

We did watch the movie and think 'well, I'm gay/straight in this world, thus I would be gay/straight in that, and face what the gay/straight people in the movie are facing.'

That is, I'm gay in the real world. In my imagining of that fantasy AU world, I was STILL GAY. I was STILL ME. However, because of that, I was in the majority of that world, a world where I was the accepted norm, would have suffered none of the trials there that I have here in regards to my sexual orientation, family, acceptance, etc. My straight friends and family that watched did the same.

If they were straight in the real world, in their imagining of that fantasy world they were STILL STRAIGHT. However, they were now in the minority, being shown how they could be bullied, vilified, rejected, and hated for being EXACTLY who they are here, where they are accepted without question for the exact same trait.

Not saying it's 'wrong' per se, but it really is kind of surprising to me that someone would watch the film and identify only with their personal minority/majority status- something which is an outside, cultural designation- instead of an actual personal trait that is an intrinsic part of them such as sexual orientation. It seems odd to me to approach this from an 'if I'm a majority here, I'm a majority there, even if a fundamental personal trait of myself is changed to accomplish that' instead of a 'if i'm gay here, I'm gay there' keeping a fundamental personal trait of yourself intact and instead seeing that it is SOCIETY and it's perceptions and treatment of others that fall outside the accepted perceptions that are being examined.

Though honestly, I agree with the others- I don't see why anyone who hasn't even attempted to actually watch the movie is bothering to comment on this thread, whose entire topic is the substance of the movie itself.

[Jester]

First of all, thank you to LewisLegion for reminding me of this fantastic short film from four years ago. I remember watching it then and being moved deeply, enough where, at the time, I watched it again immediately. And even being familiar with the film from my viewings in 2011, I felt the need to watch it again today, not just to be better able to discuss it here, but because it was simply worth watching. Any of you who have not watched it, I highly recommend that you do so.

The idea of the movie is clearly to show people who are in the social majority what it is like to be in the minority. For me, that meant picturing myself, as a straight man, but in a society where my heterosexuality is not the norm, and is in fact a trait that would cause me to be ostracized, bullied, made fun of, beat up, assaulted, legislated against, and potentially even tortured and/or killed.

To put that in perspective, I thought about the great loves of my life. The Enchantress. Blondie. The Brit. Nurse Betty. Lily.* These women, and others, meant a lot to me when I was involved with them. They still do. For different reasons. From different times. And in different ways, they taught me about love, about life, and about myself. Arguably, I would not be the man I am today without them. And I treasure my memories of them individually, and of us as couples. Anyone who knew me when I was involved with any of these women would have no doubt that I loved them deeply, and cared for them with all my heart. I am, after all, not known for being subtle.

And the idea that I would have to hide my feelings for these women, that I would have to hide my relationships with them, that I might have been denied those relationships, that they would have been the object of scorn and ridicule and opposing legislation and violence....this makes me angry. Very fucking angry. Because of what these women and these relationships have meant to me. And because of the fact that I couldn't change that, even if I wanted to, even if my family and friends and society all agreed I should. Because it is who and what I am.

And when I put myself in that frame of mind, perhaps for the first time in my life I was truly able to understand, as much as I ever could, what it was like to be gay or lesbian in this world, in this society.

That was pretty much the point of the film. It was its very essence. To take you, as you are, in your life now, and put you in the shoes and--more importantly--the hearts of people you will never actually know what it's like to be.

If you choose not to watch the film, that is your right. But to do so and then attempt to comment on it, on its premise, on its themes, on its points, seems willfully ignorant. I don't debate my mechanic on issues with my truck because I don't know a damn thing about automotive repair, and he has 30 years experience in the field. Had I educated myself over the years, had I stuck my head under the hood when my stepbrother and stepfather were working on vehicles, perhaps I could have learned enough to have such a debate with my mechanic. "Roy, are you sure it's the alternator, and not the crankshaft?" Those of you with any degree of mechanical knowledge probably giggled at that hypothetical quote, and even with my limited knowledge, I know it's ridiculous, as no one with any knowledge of cars could confuse one with the other. But to have an argument with almost no knowledge of the subject matter seems silly and futile to me, and opens oneself up to fair criticism.

mjr, you have chosen not to watch the movie. You have also chosen to nitpick at various items you view as plot holes, or unrealistic. Do you watch X-Men like this? Spider-Man? Lord of the Rings? Star Wars? Or do you accept the fact that certain aspects of these movies are going to be unrealistic in our world, and that these films, and others, have bigger stories to tell?

Yes, there are unrealistic aspects to the premise. I will not disagree with you. But I ask you, so what? The premise is not "off limits," as you suggest others have made it. It just isn't the point, of the film itself or of the discussion thread herein of the film. The point of the film, as has been stated repeatedly, was not for you to imagine yourself in this other world to see if it was realistic or tenable, but for you to imagine yourself, as yourself, in this other world so that you can understand what other people in this world go through every single day of their lives.

I won't tell you your position is wrong, as I don't know what your position IS. You haven't stated it. Not on the bigger picture issue here, the idea of picturing yourself being treated as homosexuals regularly are in our society, as the ostracized outcasts and discriminated-against minority. All you've done is complain about the unrealism of the premise. This is the equivalent of watching Blazing Saddles and declaring it unrealistic, as "there were no black sheriffs in the Old West."

Pro tip - this forum tends to lean liberal, gay-accepting and open-minded. If you can't handle being in the minority and having to defend your arguments, play somewhere else.

The irony to me is that the whole point of the film was to picture oneself in the minority, a point that seems to have been lost on mjr.


*These are the pseudonyms I've assigned to them in CS.com. I was originally going to use their real names, but chose not to. Then I was going to use different pseudonyms, but that didn't seem right to me. As if I was somehow denying what they meant to me. I could not do that. And while that seems like a minor detail perhaps not even worth of mention, it actually is very much appropriate to the larger point of this movie and this thread, if you think about it. At least it was to me.