Making under 50k (in the US) and don't get extra for overtime? You might, soon.

[EricKei]

Worth checking out. http://gawker.com/your-pay-is-about-...ium=socialflow

Thoughts?

[Canarr]

That actually sounds promising.

[s_stabeler]

it's promising, but I can see this being routinely ignored. Considering the number of times on CS that it's been said that managers expect hourly employees to work free overtime, let alone pay overtime pay, I can't see them paying salaried employees overtime. Bear in mind that quite a lot of companies are well-practised in pressurising employees into ignoring labor law violations as it stands...

It IS a good thing if it's actually enforced though. Since once you get above $50k, in all but the most expensive areas, I doubt the overtime pay would have made that much difference.

[EricKei]

I can certainly see the reaction to this being much like the labor law changes caused by the ACA/Obamacare 2-3 years ago in the US --- The threshold for "You MUST offer these workers benefits like health insurance" dropped from 40 hours/week to 30. When it went public, a year before it was even implemented, large corp's nationwide immediately started slashing "39 hour a week workers" (e.g. non-salaried ASMs) to 29 hours, with the usual caveat that passing the threshold was grounds for an immediate and summary termination. People who were already firmly in the PT area had their weekly limit changed in the same way.

I can see many salaried positions suddenly dropping to the 39 hour max, or having hours manipulated (e.g., "60-80 hours one week, off the next" on a biweekly pay schedule to avoid OT...which is illegal, as it has to be based on per-WEEK hours, not per-PAY PERIOD hours), creative new definitions for Exempt employees (e.g. redefining a position and granting a new title..."Don't like it? Quit.")...Things like that.

[Greenday]

Wtf? Do they not understand what salaried means? The government should have no business in OT. Either negotiate better when you get your job or deal with it. America is just becoming less and less friendly to businesses. And considering the government taxes the shit out of OT, it's not even worth it.

[Canarr]

Because businesses would never make salaried employees work extra hours without compensating them for that, right?
Because there is never a significant difference in power between employer and employee, right?
Because we never need government oversight to prevent employers from abusing this power, right?

Have you actually ever read any post on CS?

[s_stabeler]

Wtf? Do they not understand what salaried means? The government should have no business in OT. Either negotiate better when you get your job or deal with it. America is just becoming less and less friendly to businesses. And considering the government taxes the shit out of OT, it's not even worth it.

it's actually that OT is mandated for everyone, except certain people- the original idea was that if you were on salary, you were either sufficiently senior in the organisation or sufficiently skilled to be able to negotiate a higher salary to account for the extra hours. However, these days, salary is increasingly used to avoid paying people for all the time they work. (because if you are on salary, if you have to work 60 hours one week, there is no requirement that you be able to work only 20 hours the next.)

This also patches to an extent a major loophole for exempt employees: while you get no additional pay if you work more than 40 hours, if you work less than 40 hours, they can legally dock your pay for the time not worked (it's complicated- it's supposed to be for the equivalent of an entire day not worked- but it can be done legally)

But as for America becoming less and less friendly to businesses: well, I suppose you aren't wrong. In that businesses are actually being required to treat their workers better than slaves. (the term wage-slave was coined for a reason) (

[EricKei]

SS has a point. The only reason OT gets paid the +50% at all is because the government HAS been mandating it for a very long time. As for taxation -- it's proportionately taxed the same way that normal pay is, last I checked. 1099's (subcontractors) pay double, but that's another issue entirely.

I can confirm what SS said about the purpose of Salary these days -- *especially* at store levels. Salary in middle-management position in an office tower can reasonably be assumed to mean working 50 hours/week, minimum...but that's reasonable. Someone in that position will, if they're even remotely deserving of the job, have negotiated a salary high enough to compensate for the 'extra' time. A SM at store level (I'll use my old employer, GameStoreas an example) -- where the purse strings are held much more tightly -- would be lucky to make $3/hour more than his non-salaried ASM even *with* negotiation (GS is very much a "Take it or leave it" type of place -- negotiation simply doesn't take you very far before the higher-ups start shuffling their stack of incoming resumes), would often work 60 hrs/wk (because Corporate routinely assigns insufficient payroll hours), and must be prepared to work more like 80 hrs/wk during the Black Friday ~ XMAS rush month, effectively bringing him down below minimum wage. (To be fair, this varies -- This was the New Orleans area, where $10/hr for an ASM or $12/hr for an experienced SM is considered downright generous, for any retail business).

On the flip side: Should we NEED government interference to guarantee a fair wage being paid? Of course not. However, the behavior of corporations in the past -- and present -- has MADE it necessary. Hell, the gov't has been slacking off on the other end -- Minimum Wage -- since 1980 or better. One significant idea behind MW was the notion that someone working 40 hours a week on ME would be able to support themselves without relying on gov't assistance...and, up until the early 80's, this was mostly true. The problem being, MW has increased only by tiny little dribbles since then, while inflation has left it behind in the dust. IIRC, the modern equivalent to early-70's MW should be *above* $15 hour...and certainly not where it is now, closer to 8. But hey, that's another Fratch for another time

[drjonah]

I would SO love this! However, I can see companies slashing payroll across the board to compensate for it meaning you'll probably be working close to 80 hours a week.

[s_stabeler]

wouldn't help. The entire point is that any hours worked above 40 would be overtime- so time-and-a-half.

That, and Exempt status ALREADY says it should be assessed based on what ACTUALLY HAPPENS- so a court would likely rule that if you are required to work more than 40 hours every single week, the relevant salary level is increased proportionately.

[drjonah]

I can also see companies increasing potential bonuses but making them impossible to achieve.

[s_stabeler]

I can also see companies increasing potential bonuses but making them impossible to achieve.

They do that anyway- but I fail to see the relevance. Exempt status- indeed, even if you are an employee or not- is judged on the actual situation. Therefore, even IF bonuses count, if it's impossible to get, it's not going to be counted.

[drjonah]

What I mean is let's say you make $35K, under this new rule that would mean you would qualify for OT. So your company than increases your potential bonuses to $15K meaning you have the POTENTIAL to make $50K a year. I can see companies trying to argue that would mean you don't qualify for OT because you have the chance to make up to 50K a year

[s_stabeler]

Employent law usually deals with what actually happens, not what could happen, especially in regards to salaries.

[s_stabeler]

quick update- the new rules have been finalised, and go into force on December 1st. This si actually going to happen.

to summarise:

1.if you earn less than $47,476 per year, or $913 per week, you are non-exempt.
2.AT MOST 10% of the amount can be in the form of bonuses, commissions or incentive payments AND if it's bonuses, it cant be discretionary bonuses (so, the "bonuses you can't actually get" scam won't work.
3. the levels are adjusted every 3 years to be in line with the salary for the 40th percentile for full-time salary workers in the lowest-wage Census Region