I hardly think this was my fault....

[DrFaroohk]

Most of this sounds fair to me.

I don't like the notion that just because someone didn't try to stop something makes it their fault. No. It's the fault of people who did something. When you spread out blame like that you're taking blame away from people responsible and putting it on the bystanders. I don't think so. I dunno about the rest of the world, but I was raised to be responsible for my OWN actions. That means if I break a window, I pay for it. You break it, you pay for it. Can you imagine telling a judge "Hey, it's not my fault I raped that girl. See that guy over there? He didn't even try to stop me!" See how far you get with that.

For the dog analogy, I think it was misunderstood: Imagine there are three dogs - X, Y and Z. Only X and Y attack you. Are you going to blame Z who was nowhere near you? He was over there by the tree licking his balls. What did he have to do with it? Oh, he didn't try to stop it.

Some people have some pretty twisted views of the world.

[kiwi]

Some people have some pretty twisted views of the world.

I find that statement so ironic.

Your child damaged something, you are resonsible for your child and yet you think you shouldn't have to help repair the damage.

Yes some people certainly do have a twisted view on things.

[Greenday]

Well, if you know a crime is going to be committed and you do nothing to stop it or report it, that makes you guilty by association.

[Andara Bledin]

First: Why did the kid think busting someone else's property is ok?

What that property is is completely irrelevant. It belongs to someone else, you don't fucking touch it without permission.

Second: The dog analogy is junk.

Unless you're raising the kid to have the intelligence and mentality of a pet, you should be holding him to the standard of a human being.

Third: Just because you don't have an active hand in something, that doesn't automatically absolve you of blame.

If you weren't at the scene and didn't know that something was happening, sure, you shouldn't be held responsible. But if you just stand by and let it happen, that makes you an accessory. At the very least, you shouldn't keep hanging around with the actual perpetrators.

*Note: most of the 'you's in this are generic and not actually aimed at the OP.

^-.-^

[DrFaroohk]

actually, I don't think busting someone's property is ok. I've said that two...three times now?

However I felt like if I were to say "I should only have to pay 1/3" in my original post, some of the more contrary of the members might say "YOU SHOULD PAY ALL!"

The dog analogy is...well people keep misunderstanding it. I didn't even make the damn thing, but i get it, and I think the ones who don't are deliberately trolling. Yeah, I said it. I'm on to you! lol...

Now on to the property...of course it's not irrelevent what it was. I get that. I really get that. It's a matter of monetary value. If something was destroyed that was worth 0 dollars, then 1/3 of that 0 dollars is....

Come on, I bet you can figure it out. I may be losing faith in some people's ability to read, but I still have faith in our math skills! What's 1/3 of 0 dollars/?

Fuck, I'll pay the whole thing! I'll pay 100% of the zero dollars worth of property that was destroyed.

[Ree]

Can you imagine telling a judge "Hey, it's not my fault I raped that girl. See that guy over there? He didn't even try to stop me!" See how far you get with that.

Actually, if the guy stood and watched while you raped some girl, and he didn't, at the very minimum, report it to the police, I think he can be charged.

Can you use it as a defense that he didn't stop you? Nope.

Oh, and how is a damaged garden shed worth zero dollars?
The car may have been a junker, but the windows didn't need to be broken out.
He might have been able to sell it for parts and scrap.
That he didn't do it, and didn't seem to want to do it is irrelevant, really.
It did not belong to them, and so, they had no business touching it.

You don't trash someone else's property out of boredom.

The money is a punitive thing rather than a replacement value thing.

[kiwi]

How much are car windows worth? Please tell me where you can get them for zero dollars becuase I would LOVE to know that magical place!

Even if the car was a junker it was still not your property and your son had ZERO right to destroy it. You are being asked to pay your fair share of the replacement cost.

Did you ground your kid by the way? Did you talk to him about how his actions were wrong and make him apologise to this guy for damaging his stuff? I find it incredible that you seem to be more angry at the guy who had his stuff broken than you do at your own son.

[Evandril]

I don't like the notion that just because someone didn't try to stop something makes it their fault. No. It's the fault of people who did something. When you spread out blame like that you're taking blame away from people responsible and putting it on the bystanders. I don't think so. I dunno about the rest of the world, but I was raised to be responsible for my OWN actions. That means if I break a window, I pay for it. You break it, you pay for it. Can you imagine telling a judge "Hey, it's not my fault I raped that girl. See that guy over there? He didn't even try to stop me!" See how far you get with that.

A more accurate analogy would be a gang attacks someone, and one of them rapes them...Should the ones who didn't actually 'perform' the rape be scot-free? "I just held her down, I didn't rape her!" or "I just cheered them on, that's ok, right?" At what point does it become acceptable to just be part of the crowd that's causing damage/pain to others? If your kids do not learn they need to stand up for what is right now, when it's easiest, what are the odds they *ever* will?

[DrFaroohk]

I'm "angry at the guy" whose stuff my kid broke?

<looks over recent posts>

<scratches head>

Can I buy some pot from you?

In all seriousness, as i've said multiple times, I'm going to contribute my 1/3 of the actual damages. Fuck punitive damages. That's just stupid.

I'm not sure about offering either. He may very well have the same mindset as me. He might be thinking "Ya know what...these kids didn't break anything of value. I'm mildly annoyed my property was violated, but you can't fix that with money, and I'm not concerned with the rest of the damage." because quite possibly he's not the stupidest person on the planet.

But then again, if I come offering money, he might think "Oh, well I'll take the money just for the hell of it." Screw that. if there was something honest to god damaged he can come tell me and we'll settle up.

[kiwi]

You still haven't answered about what you told your son, did you point out that being a vandal might be overlooked at 7 but will land him with a criminal record at 17.

[insertNameHere]

Um, in the gang rape analogy, if your holding the person down you are taking part. If your sitting in the corner wondering what the fuck to do because you don't know if you should tell them to stop, try to get them to stop, call the police, risk getting your ass kicked, etc etc. Is more the bystander thing.

[Andara Bledin]

actually, I don't think busting someone's property is ok. I've said that two...three times now?

I never questioned what you thought about it. I asked why your kid thought it was ok, which you didn't answer.

Now on to the property...of course it's not irrelevent what it was. I get that. I really get that. It's a matter of monetary value. If something was destroyed that was worth 0 dollars, then 1/3 of that 0 dollars is....

No, you don't get that or you wouldn't have been so very specific about what was broken, and you wouldn't be mentioning its apparent - and patently mistaken - lack of value.

The entire rest of your post is just a whole bunch of straw men you're trying to distract people with.

^-.-^

[DrFaroohk]

/Logic Fail


There were no straw men in my post. Just because you incorrectly assume there were doesn't make it so.

And you're not a mind reader. So don't act like one. The only person who can really know what I was thinking is me. Therefore my word trumps whatever half-baked theory someone on the internet pulled out of their butts. So my previous statement applies.

I'm willing to pay for value. A truck holding the grass up and is more rust than truck is not something of value.

Edit - I understand what the problem is - people are just skimming the posts. So they're missing the important parts and just picking out what they want to hear. They aren't even seeing where I said I'm totally willing to pay for 1/3 of the damage. They're missing half of the arguments and just choosing the parts they ignorantly see as "wrong", while missing the key point that makes it right. PLEASE STOP THAT. If you're not going to read the post then don't bother taking up space in the thread.

[Greenday]

Your original posts made it seem like you didn't want to take any responsibility for your kid or even that it was possible that your kid did anything wrong. That was the feelings I got from your posts.

[DrFaroohk]

Which I later explained....

"I felt like if I were to say "I should only have to pay 1/3" in my original post, some of the more contrary of the members might say "YOU SHOULD PAY ALL!" "

It happens. some people, it doesn't matter what you say, they feel like they have to be at odds.