British English vs. American English grammar

[MaggieTheCat]

I read a blog post today written by a woman who was complaining about lack of grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc. that she witnesses in today's society. I can't argue that but what bothered me is that her blog post was littered with bad grammar and punctuation.

She said that people need to "learn how to write and speak English in it's proper form." It's? IT'S? People should learn how to write and speak English in it is proper form? "It's" is only ever used to contract "it is." In her sentence, it should have been "its" with no apostrophe.

In another sentence, she said something about "other than those drivers that turn a corner in their vehicle." A driver is a person, therefore when referring to him or her, you should use "who", not "that."

Lastly, she really went on about how so many people use "me" instead of "I" when talking about themselves and another person. "Me and Billy went to the baseball game." "The house belongs to me and Billy." And how in both of those cases, it should be "Bill and I", not "me and Billy."

Incorrect. In the second example, "The house belongs to me and Billy", "me" is correct, "I" is not. If you were to take "and Billy" out of the sentence, you would be left with, "The house belongs to me" which is correct. If you used "Billy and I" originally, and took "Billy and" out, you'd have "The house belongs to I" which is incorrect. In that particular case, "me and Billy" (or "Billy and me") is grammatically correct.

The kicker is that she argued at length with people who tried to correct her. In the end, she said that all the people who would use "me and Billy" must have been raised to learn American English and she was raised to learn British English, and that in British English, "me and Billy" is NEVER acceptable, including in the second example given above.

So I'm curious. Having been born in the States myself, I don't know. Is it really incorrect in British English to say "The house belongs to Billy and me"? Would you really use "Billy and I" in that case?

I realize that my own post here probably is not grammatically correct in every regard. I am not trying to be a hypocrite, my main pet peeve is that she wrote this great big long rant about incorrect grammar, when she herself was not using correct grammar, and not just in one or two places, but continually throughout her blog post.

[HYHYBT]

In another sentence, she said something about "other than those drivers that turn a corner in their vehicle." A driver is a person, therefore when referring to him or her, you should use "who", not "that."

As I learnt it, "who" is for people only, "which" is for things only, and "that" can be used with either.

[Rapscallion]

Standards of English in England?

Generally speaking, I don't know where I stand on this. I thought I had decent grammar, but someone spent a large amount of time and effort taking my grammar to pieces and putting it back together again. I tend to the Strunkian in style these days.

I can see and hear errors every day. Generally speaking, most people do not use correct grammar in England.

Do I lament this? I could, but what would the point be? There are different standards of grammar around. The whole 'not ending a sentence with a preposition' thing is argued about and one factor I don't follow - mostly out of laziness, since I've never looked into it strongly enough.

Should I educate more people? Without being paid it's a losing game. Having better grammar stands me in better stead when it comes to improving my chances of better employment. Besides, the whole thing about grammar is communication. If people can understand each other clearly then that's enough, surely?

Also, when correct grammar is mentioned I always think about the Queen's English and people such as Dickens. The issue is that while they - the educated type - were actually pretty rare and there were many times their number in the working classes who didn't speak the same way.

I think there are too many standards of grammar and far too little will or ability to bring everyone up to the same level to worry overly about it.

Rapscallion

[Lace Neil Singer]

As long as a person isn't posting in chatspeak or ebonics, I really couldn't care less. Basically, all I ask of a post is that it be readable. The odd grammar mistake or spelling error isn't a problem; endless chatspeak is.

[jackfaire]

My thought is this.

If you go to France and the main language is French and your speaking Swahili your using bad language and people will not understand you.

The same with Grammar if your using X Grammar with people who use Y Grammar both of you are going to see the other as having bad grammar.

However if you both use X grammar then you will agree you both have good grammar.

Language is always changing and the rules taught today are the "do not do this" rules of tomorrow.

[Andara Bledin]

The whole 'not ending a sentence with a preposition' thing is argued about and one factor I don't follow - mostly out of laziness, since I've never looked into it strongly enough.

It's actually complete bunk when speaking English. It's a rule for Latin where sentences are structured in an entirely different manner (every preposition has a noun, and you have to denote which belongs to which because they don't have prepositional phrases in the way English does) and when you have a sentence such as, "What are you thinking about?" the final word isn't a preposition but part of a verbal phrase. The whole 'don't end with a preposition' was a way for the highly educated to act like compete ponces.

^-.-^

[jackfaire]

The whole 'don't end with a preposition' was a way for the highly educated to act like compete ponces.

^-.-^

My favorite example of that:

Simon Wilder: Which door do I leave from?
Proffesor Pitkannan: At Harvard we don't end our sentences with prepositions.
Simon Wilder: Okay. Which door do I leave from, asshole?

[Andara Bledin]

I'd always heard it as having the punchline of "Where's the library at, asshole?"

I prefer the door one as the final word (from as opposed to at) isn't redundant.

^-.-^

[jackfaire]

I'd always heard it as having the punchline of "Where's the library at, asshole?"

I was actually quoting a movie. It's from With Honors one of my personal favorites. It made me question a lot of things I knew about life. It inspired me to learn more about things I thought I knew all about.

[Ginger Tea]

I would more than likely say me and billy over billy and me or billy and I, no one I've met has ever said the billy and I style, not that I can recall anyhows.

[jackfaire]

I would more than likely say me and billy over billy and me or billy and I, no one I've met has ever said the billy and I style, not that I can recall anyhows.

Well in any form of English it's not correct.

See it's entirely based on what you would say if you take away Billy as the I or me has actually no relation to billy and is not affected by adding a second person to the sentence.

So without Billy it becomes

The Wrong Way: That dude gave I candy

The Right Way: That dude gave me candy

The Billy Way: That dude gave Billy and me candy

The Ginger Way: That dude gave me and Billy candy

[Lace Neil Singer]

That dude sounds like a pedophile to me... think of the children! O.o

Seriously, I think it depends on context as far as the "Billy and I/Billy and me" thing goes.

[jackfaire]

That dude sounds like a pedophile to me... think of the children! O.o

I think the problem is that he is thinking of the children.

[Andara Bledin]

My boss, who used to be a teacher and has no excuse, does the predicate compound personal pronoun as "I" instead of "me." It drives me nuts.

And to those who think it "sounds more proper," it only sounds that way to the ignorant. If you want to sound good to the ignorant, more power to you.

^-.-^

[jackfaire]

If you want to sound good to the ignorant....

^-.-^

Give them Twinkies!!!