The "new" dire wolf.

[draggar]

I am rather disgusted at this.

The breed was "American Alsatian". They prided on ethics, health certifications, and intense breeder screening and so on - started in 1988. In a nutshell the project was to make a wolfy breed with no wolf in it (yeah, like we don't have enough of those - and why call it an alsatian when it's not an alsatian?).

Now, in June 2011 they registered a dire wolf domain and claim the entire project was to create a modern dire wolf with no wolf in it.

My issue with this:

1) The dire wolf was around 5 feet long and weighed about 240 pounds (estimated form skeletal remains). Are they really trying to breed dogs that large? What about all the health issues that come with large breeds (hip and elbow issues, very high chance of bloat / gastric contortion, plus the general risks to people with a dog that large).

2) Enough "non wolf-wolfy" breeds. We have Northern Inuits, Tamaskans, Otonagans, and a few others. Why add more?

3) Timing. Game of Thrones started in April 2011 and this started a HUGE interest in dire wolves (just check Google trends - you'll see a jump around April and May, 2011). They registered the domain in June, 2011. Personally, I think it is more of a publicity stunt to try to cash in on the "dire wolf" interest. There is still a lot of interest - about 85% of the traffic to my dog actors site is for the "dire wolves" in Game of Thrones and over 95% of the searches that lead to the site are for dire wolves.

[HYHYBT]

I've never heard of a dire wolf before, but if you're going to try to mimic an extinct species/breed, what's the point in not starting with the closest living relatives?

[draggar]

I've never heard of a dire wolf before, but if you're going to try to mimic an extinct species/breed, what's the point in not starting with the closest living relatives?

In most states "wolfdogs" (as in the offspring from a wolf and a dog - or less than 3, 4, or 5 generations (depending on jurisdiction)) are either not legal or under serious restrictions.

[Sleepwalker]

I've lived in states where if they found out you had wolfdogs, they'd just come out and shoot them where they stood.

In their defense, if you have ever seen a car being chased by a carnivore almost as long as it is.... *shudder*

[draggar]

The issue with "wolfdog" laws is that they are based on bad information. People think wolfdogs are all aggressive (and it doesn't help when people like Caesar Milan make ignorant statements, too).

The truth is that wolves are very skittish and will avoid humans and won't challenge the pack ranks if they have a good pack leader. The same goes for wolfdogs.

Even people are afraid of the wolf-like breeds (breeds that look like wolves but have no wolf in them) claiming they're too aggressive. The truth? The 3 largest breeds (Tamaskan, Utonagan, and Northern Inuit) are actually some of the most submissive breeds out there.

Don't forget - I'm involved (deeply) with Czechoslovakian Vlcaks and they will be the first "wolfdog" that people see in the AKC show ring (Saarloos are to far behind in numbers). Like it or not, the vlcak community will be the steward for the wolfdog community for a while unless another club (like the Tamaskan TDR) steps up.

[Andara Bledin]

Part-wolves have slightly different pack behavior than dogs, and as most people can't manage to provide a proper pack environment for dogs, I can very much understand why there is so much legal issue around wolf hybrids.

Of course, the fact that public opinion is so far off the mark is to be expected. The public, at large, are ignorant fucks and seem to prefer it that way. >_<

^-.-^

[draggar]

We noticed that with Luna but and Pollux but if anything they need far more reassurance of their place in the pack than the other dogs.

We were at a wolfdog get together a few months back for a large WD club. No aggression whatsoever in fact, they were stand-offish (I don't know you so why should you be my friend?) and if they did like you they were polite and submissive - this included some upper mid content WDs, too.

[anakhouri]

I'm not a dog breeder, but aren't there enough kinds of dogs in the world? Why do we need more?

I guess it is a hobby though, like some people hybridize different kinds of flowers to make new kinds. Seems kind of weird to be doing with actual living animals though.

[AdminAssistant]

I agree with you, ana. When pounds and animal shelters are overflowing with dogs, cats, and all manner of animals, breeding specialty animals for purely cosmetic purposes seems ridiculous. I actually see the need for things like labradoodles, as they're hypoallergenic. Okay, that make sense. But we don't need 5 different breeds of dogs that look like wolves, nor do we need domestic cats that have tiger stripes or leopard spots. The whole 'designer' pets trend is idiotic and selfish.

[draggar]

That's why we love our vlcaks - they were bred for a purpose (border patrol).

Nothern Inuits (formerly known as Tamaskan Wolfdogs) were also bred for a purpose - a wolf looking breed with no wolf in it. Now we have Utonagans that split away from them (due to politics) and a new Tamaskan who split from them, due to politics.

We also have Shiloh Shepehrds which are pretty much lines form a puppy mill (sorry, Tina, but when you brag about having "hundreds of dogs" and "dozens of litters a year" - you're a mill.

Also, this "Dire Wolf Project" wasn't called that until June, 2011 - before that they were "American Alsatians".

I see a lot of crap being bred and even the wolfdog club I'm in has to roll their eyes, groan, and even cry at times at what is done.

[Evandril]

I've a question...One of the reasons I'd heard that wolves make bad pets is the way they will 'challenge' the leadership of the pack, making things interesting for a normal person who doesn't know enough to properly react...How much truth is in that statement?

[draggar]

I've a question...One of the reasons I'd heard that wolves make bad pets is the way they will 'challenge' the leadership of the pack, making things interesting for a normal person who doesn't know enough to properly react...How much truth is in that statement?

Any dog can do that - especially if they feel that the pack leaders are weak. Be a good alpha and it'll never happen. I don't think there is a higher chance of it happening with wolfdogs than any other breed.

I know people who have had wolfdogs (a.k.a. "hybrids") from low to mid-high content as well as wolfdog breeds (vlcaks, Saarloos) and haven't had a problem.

Almost all issues like that with dogs can be attributed to a few things: Irresponsible or uneducated owners, breeders, and/or trainers.

[R.Tam]

Nothern Inuits (formerly known as Tamaskan Wolfdogs) were also bred for a purpose - a wolf looking breed with no wolf in it. Now we have Utonagans that split away from them (due to politics) and a new Tamaskan who split from them, due to politics.

This made me cringe. To correct your post, The Northern Inuit was the first wolf-like without wolf breed. Then came the Utonagan, and then the Tamaskan. The Tamaskan Wolfdog(now American Tamaskan) is the name of the mixed breeds produced by a puppy mill in America.

As for the American Alsatian, they've been going for the Dire Wolf look LONG before Game of Thrones.

[Mishi]

The temprement that you've described for the Vlcak sounds like it's part way between our two dogs. Hailie does the aloof thing more often than Danny and warms up to most people after 4-5 visits. Some people (like my M-i-L) she'll say hello to, then wander off and ignore them. They like to know where they stand in the pack order, and also like physical contact or close proximity (laying down near us when we're busy).

I can't stand people that breed animals just because a movie or a show has made them popular. Over here, the dalmation lines have just recovered (I still wouldn't have one), the boxers are having problems and the staffies are going downhill fast. As for puppy mills *shakes head* there's no excuse for that.

[draggar]

This made me cringe. To correct your post, The Northern Inuit was the first wolf-like without wolf breed. Then came the Utonagan, and then the Tamaskan. The Tamaskan Wolfdog(now American Tamaskan) is the name of the mixed breeds produced by a puppy mill in America.

As for the American Alsatian, they've been going for the Dire Wolf look LONG before Game of Thrones.

They were initially Tamaskan Wolfdogs (the original Tamaskan) but changed the name to Northern Inuit (despite the Inuit breed owner's not liking that). All Tamaskans became Northern Inuits and there were no Tamaskans.

Then, Utonagans split away from NIs to form their own club - and later the "new" Tamaskans split away from the Utonagans to form their own club.

This was confirmed by people in the NI society, the TDR, and people in the Utonagan breed since the beginning. Rarely do the three clubs agree on anything.

As for the dire wolf project - maybe the wolf look but they didn't refer it to a dire wolf project until June, 2011.

Also, http://shepaluteclub.tripod.com/breeders/dire_wolf.html

The breeding method employed by members of the National American Alsatian Breeder's Association will use only established domestic dog breeds to breed back the large, round bones, massive feet, and broad head found in the skeletal structure of Dire wolves studied by prominent paleontologists throughout North America. No wolf, wolf-dog cross of any percentage or domesticated dog with recent wolf ancestry will be used; that includes the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, the Saarloos Wolfhound, Alaskan Noble Companion Dog, Lupo Italiano, Kunming Wolfdog, or the Japanese Wolfdog.

I can speak for the vlcak communiy and I'm sure the Saarloos community would agree that we're glad we're not part of it. We do not need more mixed breeds and designer dogs. Looks like this is an attempt at a MAW shiloh that looks like a wolf.