How Can A Bank Allow This To Happen?

[Sableonblonde]

A few weeks ago, on my husband's payday, the first thing we did was pay our largest utility bill. In the past we have paid by check, but this time to make it easier we just gave them our debit card info over the phone.

A couple of hours later our bank calls and said that the utility company charged us four times for the same transaction. Since the bill was around $400, and then times 4, it wiped out our account and put our balance at -200.

The utility company claimed that the first three times our card was declined, and that it only went through on the fourth try. The bank said the only thing we could do was wait for the charges to be taken off of pending...which would take up to four business days. So in the meantime....we would have no access to OUR money, through no fault of our own.

To add insult to injury, it took SIX business day, not four, before our account was fixed and we could access our money. And by that time, my husband had gotten paid again anyway.

We were fortunate that we had savings, so we could get by for that week, but what if this happened to someone who didn't have savings? How could the bank know that someone's entire bank account had been wiped out through no fault of their own, all their money was gone, and then just basically shrug and say "Sorry, you'll just have to wait until the computer fixes it." How could they not see that as an emergency situation?

My husband and I have both written e-mails demanding an explaination, but never received any kind of response. Now, if we hadn't had money in savings, then I would have gone into the bank personally and raised hell. We have an 8 month old who needs food and diapers!

I just don't understand how something like that could happen to someone, they just lose access to all of their money, and then they have to wait a WEEK to get it back. It just seems so inexcusable.

[bara]

Ive noticed a trend with banks and other companies. They can very easily take your money. Have it out of your account within seconds. But takes a week or better to get it back to you. I have a slight problem with that.

I can understand paper checks. But when things are done electronically they should be able to correct the problem as quickly as it was made.
I know the call center i worked at for borgsphere cell phones was bad about that. Could take up to two weeks for money to be returned if the error wasnt caught within the same hour it was made. TO be fair, it was usually the customers error. But an honest error shouldnt hurt some one for two weeks.

A time that stands out is when a lady made her payment, but wasnt paying attention. She paid the whole bill, all of which at the time was past due, but she had only intended to pay the really past due amount that would have gotten her shut off. In that case, there was nothing we could do since it was monies owed to the company and policy forbade any sort of refund without taking it higher up. Of course the only way to do that was to submit a ticket and cross your fingers.

[Andara Bledin]

One thing to understand is that despite the money being out of your bank account, it's not in the utility company's bank account, yet. It still takes multiple business days for the money to go from the payment point (your bank) to the recipient (the utility company). Whoever is running the transactions in the middle is making a tidy sum on holding that money an extra day or two between charge and payout.

^-.-^

[Mytical]

Ok, I know this doesn't help, and it sucks, but what we have here is the difference between an authorization and a charge. Before I go into this, just know that I agree it bites monkey butt.

When you first offer to pay via debit card/credit card/etc..the company collecting contacts the person who issued the debit card/credit card/etc and says "Ok can you take out these funds for us?" they do not instantly collect. The bank says "Sure"..and authorizes the money. Now if there is a hang up for any reason..sometimes it will check again to see if the funds are available. Again no collection, just making sure the money is still there. Now theoretically the first 'authorization' should fall off BEFORE the next one comes through. Since for some reason some banks/credit card companies are not 24/7 this is not the case..so the AUTOMATED system of the bank sees this request for funds..and says "Hey..I need to hold this money out." despite the money already being held out. If banks credit companies would get with the program..this would not happen. BUT they make money off of overdraft fees so...

Anyhow..now when the company goes to actually collect the money..(A charge) then the money is no longer in limbo, but actually where it should be.

So it is the fact that somewhere between the bank/card company and companies trying to collect the money that a glitch occurs. In an idea world the authorization would either happen instantly before the collection, or fall off BEFORE the next authorization is asked for. Normally this should only happen if there is something being shipped or the item goes to backorder. Since most companies wait to collect when they have the item and are shipping it to the customer. Since that is not the case here..I don't have a CLUE what happened.

[HYHYBT]

What they need is a system where the holds are cleared automatically faster except for businesses that legitimately need longer ones. (Items ordered that might be out of stock need longer than hotels seeing how much damage you've done, which need more than restaurants just waiting to see if you add a tip or gas stations seeing how much your tank holds.)

[Andara Bledin]

I don't have a CLUE what happened.

I do. Utility's processor sent the charge, the bank's system sent back the authorization, and the processor didn't get it. It wasn't until three tries later that it completed the entire cycle, at which point there were three superfluous holds on the card.

We've had the same thing happen to our customers and it was nothing that either we or they did: it's something in the way the system checks itself.

^-.-^

[blas87]

I just went through something similar, though mine was debit card theft.

I had to sign up to opt-out, because before, anyone could just put my account as far negative as they wanted and it was ok?!?!?!!?!?!? I thought I already had it set to not be that way, but apparently not.

I was charged an overdraft fee every day I was in the hole, even though I had already filed for fraud and had my card cancelled, per their policy. So I had over $100 in overdraft fees, along with the fact that I didn't get paid for a couple of days yet.

If the ladies at the bank hadn't fought so hard for me, it would have taken up to two weeks to get my money back, and the overdrafts reversed.

[crashhelmet]

And this is why I love my bank. Err.. Credit Union.

Last November, I had to fly back to Florida for my Grandmother's funeral. One night while I was out there, I was with family watching the Cheatriots play the Jests on Sunday Night Football at my cousin's house. For some reason I can't explain, I picked up my phone and logged into the droid app for my Credit Union to check my balance.

What I found surprised the hell out of me. Both my checking and savings accounts were completely wiped out and had pending deposits of $500 in each of them. because it was Sunday night, I couldn't reach anyone at the bank. Instead, I jumped online and sent an email and set an alarm to call them first thing in the morning.

The rep i spoke with at the Credit Union cancelled the debit portion of my card so the thief couldn't do anything more with it. She then credited $500 in both accounts and left the VISA portion of my card active so that I could use it while for the remaining 2 days of my trip. As soon as I got back to Vegas, I went to my local branch and filled out all of the paperwork.

They completed their investigation, corrected my accounts to show the proper balances, and issued me a new card.

It turns out that I got caught in an ATM Skimming scheme I now double check EVERY ATM I use.

[Ginger Tea]

I know someone who got done in the same way, but did that ATM just pop in pop out the card and still let you access it with the card back in your wallet?
UK ones don't spit it back out till you are done, without knowing more about American ATM's that looks like a mugging/security risk to me.

Edit:
saw the 2nd part of the video, yep, don't like the looks of that system one bit.

[Andara Bledin]

I know someone who got done in the same way, but did that ATM just pop in pop out the card and still let you access it with the card back in your wallet?

It likely did. A lot of systems are set up so that you swipe the card, pocket it, then run your transaction until you close it out. They're somewhat like a point of sale, but without the clerk on the other side.

I avoid third party ATMS like that. It's either the ATM at my bank, or point of sale at the retailer. "Convenience" ATMs are just to easy as targets like this.

Plus, since I avoid them, any transaction at one can be guaranteed to be criminal.

^-.-^

[HYHYBT]

My bank not long ago replaced its "card eating" machine with one that you just swipe. It does have one safety precaution that some others apparently don't: once you do *one* thing, it closes out and you have to start over if you want something else. But I liked the old one better... except, of course, that time it wouldn't give my card back and I had to wait a week or two for a replacement. The newer one can't do that.

[MadMike]

This is why I still write paper checks to pay the bills, rather than giving companies direct access to my checking account.

[SongsOfDragons]

Slightly O/T, but I do hope the police get sic'd on those three douchebag commenters on that Real Hustle video who are offering those bastard things for sale...

[Sableonblonde]

We went back to paying by check when it comes to this particular bill...not going to take a chance like that again.

[Palsgraf]

I'd put down on our tax return for it to be direct-deposited into my checking account. So I was surprised to find a tax return check in the mailbox as I was leaving to pick up my daughter from school. I took it with me, and deposited it in my checking account on the way home (handing the check & deposit slip to the teller, and her giving me a receipt).

A couple days later, I called to see what portion was "available." The CSR told me that my entire balance was available.

Cool!

I used the debit card to buy plane tickets to take the kids to see their Nana & Papa. I wrote a check. I scheduled a credit card payment and other bill payments (ACH transfers).

A day or two after that, my debit card was declined at a restaurant.

What? No, not possible.

I called and was told that there was an endorsement hold on the check. I'd deposited a check made out to my wife and I into my account without her signature (we've always had separate accounts, because of pre-marriage student loan debt, etc.).

The CSR told me that I'd have to have my wife sign paperwork before 2 p.m. or all those pending items would be returned.

I asked why the teller didn't tell me I needed my wife's signature, and was told that it was caught days later by their loss-prevention dept.

If I'd known that I needed her signature, then I would have just waited a couple hours for her to get home, sign it, and then bring to the bank.

I explained to my wife that she needed to sign paperwork at the nearest branch office - closer to her work instead of coming all the way home. But when I called to ask what papers she should ask for, I was told that I needed to be with her so they could access my account.

Whatever.

I drove down to her work, picked her up, and drove us to the nearest branch. But they didn't have the paperwork at THAT branch. It had to be faxed over. Eventually she signed the papers and I took her back to her job.

I called the bank around 1:30 p.m. to confirm that they'd received the paperwork. The CSR I spoke with this time told me that it was being reviewed by another department and they would have an answer by 5 p.m. ... but that it would be too late for the 2 p.m. deadline to avoid bouncing all my payments.

When I pointed out again that I'd called to check the "available balance" (each time I called I'd start to get a lecture about what the "available balance" is, until I explained that it was an endorsement issue), the CSR that time told me that the entire balance had been made available early because they had thought that I was a good customer - she started to trip over her words as she realized how bad that sounded.

Eventually, it was taken care of. They put a note or something on my pending payments to make them go through while the review of the paperwork was underway.

They also reversed the insufficient funds fee - twice, by accident. I've sent them a letter pointing it out and telling them to go ahead and take one of the reversal credits off my account.

My coworker told me that I'm an idiot for not just forging my wife's signature - apparently he & his wife do that all the time to avoid such problems.

I'm just glad that I'd tried to use my debit card that morning - otherwise I wouldn't have found out about the hold (both the website and the telephone teller stated that I still had an available balance) until two days later when I received a letter in the mail. And by then, everything would have bounced and I'd owe a fortune in insufficient funds fees to everyone!