THEN MOVE!! / My life my choice

[SongsOfDragons]

I agree with Raps. Some aspects of just basic American culture scares me witless - especially the education and health parts. I don't know how you can bear it!

No wait I do - it's because you live there, you're used to it. There's probably bits of ours over here that do the same. *hugs her UK plushie*

There are lots of things over here that suck monkey business. I follow a blog called Nanny Knows Best that calls out a lot of this rubbish. I'd like to think that we are a little less apathetic on some things...

As to gun laws - I'm certain I've mentioned it before, but do Brits remember that man...Jean Charles de Mendezes? He ran from police in an incident just after 7/7 and got shot. He wasn't involved - I think the conclusion was that he was a student overstaying his visa or something... Our police, who do not habitually carry guns (according to my cousin at least - Detective Inspector in Teeside) shot an innocent man, and it was in the national papers for MONTHS. I may be deluded by television but would that same incident have had the same impact in America?

As to gun laws part two - Winchester has a gun shop, catering to the hunting crowd. Very expensive but beautiful things.

[HEMI6point1]

Yesterday on CBS evening news they interviewed a young women who said she is going to graduate college with around $100,000 in student loan debt. No, that's not a misprint.

$100,000 just for the privilege of being handed a piece of paper with fancy text on it. Unbelievable.

And TBH, what does a degree say other than "I'm willing to put up with shit I don't want to do just to achieve a certain goal?" College doesn't make one smarter, it just lets someone prove in writing that they have "drive" and are willing to put up with roadblocks along the way.

Let's say you want to major in electrical engineering? You must first put up with having to write essays on William Shakespear and George Washington for like a year before even getting to your major. US education apologists will say, "That's because they don't want you to have a one-track mind." That's BS. They want to see if you're willing to put up with crap that has nothing to do with your major to see if you're going to put up with it and soldier on, or say "fuck this" and drop out.

Now in other countries, not only is college education free or heavily discounted, they "have it right" when it comes to the programs. They just get right down to the "meat" of what a person is trying to learn. I read somewhere that dropout rates are far less in other countries Vs the US, probably for that very reason.

Now about me? I never went, partially because I had no desire to drown in debt, but also because I was screwed out of just about every opportunity. When me and my family was living in NY, I applied for financial aid. Even though my salary was crap, they combined my income with my father's and said "You make too much money." I tried to tell them that most of it is going to bills/rent/food/etc, and their response? "That doesn't matter." A couple of years later, I was basically accepted into a college and this time was approved for financial aid and even some grants. All they needed was my high school transcripts. My high school's response? "They are sealed underground and we are not releasing them." I told them that ______ college needs them to accept me. Again, I was told, "We are not releasing them." And because of that this college had to turn me away.

But this is where the US college system is truly fucked up. In NY, one of my downstairs neighbors who was a known drug dealer, was always harassing us and threatening us, and was basically more of a menace to society rather than a contributor, got both his bachelor's AND his masters completely paid for trough grants/scholarships/etc. Why? Because from what we were told, he gave a sob story that his daddy left when he was young and his family had to go on welfare / section 8 and bla bla bla. So I get screwed, and cretins like him get rewarded.

[Rapscallion]

Ah yes, I forgot about the education aspect. If you want to get anywhere in the US, you have to be in nearly permanent education for an extra decade or so (based on purely anecdotal, but amusing to me, data).

Seriously - the number of CSers who pipe up every so often saying that they're still undergoing some sort of education while already in employment is significant.

Rapscallion

[Nekojin]

Interesting link, Nekojin. I'm getting ready for work right now, but is there anything that puts it into perspective on, say, a per capita basis?

That site has a great deal of information, and DOES break it down on a per capita basis, as well as giving the raw numbers. But even the numbers that we have are hard to use to prove anything, because there's so much in countries other than the big "Western" countries that doesn't get reported. For example, until about 10 years ago, Japan had deceptively low Rape numbers, because most rape victims there never reported it.

Putting everything in context is hard work, when you're trying to argue against someone who is trying to use "soundbite debating." The media plays up short soundbites that sound scary. That feeds into a "perception is reality" feedback loop, where people believe what they hear, and pass along what they believe. Culture plays into this, as well - consider that British citizens feel much safer than American citizens, despite the fact that they're more than four times as likely to be the victim of a violent crime. The US media has played up all sorts of social dangers, both from other people ("Stranger danger!") and from the world around us.

For people who look at just the raw homicide numbers, please take a look at this page. You're far, far more likely to be killed by someone you already know than by a total stranger.

I've got lots more to add to the topic, but it seems a needless rehash - another forum that I'm on (Ars Technica) had a discussion just last year about whether the US us really a safe place or not.

Are there some things about the US that suck? Absolutely. Just like there are things about Canada that suck, things about Norway that suck, things about Estonia that suck, and so on. There's no such thing as paradise, and by moving, you may be trading one set of problems (or perceived problems) for another.

[Greenday]

Ah yes, I forgot about the education aspect. If you want to get anywhere in the US, you have to be in nearly permanent education for an extra decade or so (based on purely anecdotal, but amusing to me, data).

It mainly depends on what you want to do for a living. One of my friends decided to not go to college when we graduated high school. He did an apprenticeship with someone for two years and now he co-owns a heating/ventilation system company at 24 years old and makes sweet money. So he was only in school until he was 18.

I went to college, got my major and a minor in four years, then got a job in my field for a year. Now I'm contemplating going back to school to either get my masters or a doctorate. That could take another 2-4 years. Why is that necessary? Because my field is very competitive at the supervisor level and they can be very choosy. Thus it's necessary to get more schooling to stand out.

The main thing that's happened since the last generation is that EVERYONE gets a high school diploma (I mean, if you show up, you are going to graduate). So that would mean the diploma is worth nothing. That's why we have to continue on.

[AdminAssistant]

Now in other countries, not only is college education free or heavily discounted, they "have it right" when it comes to the programs. They just get right down to the "meat" of what a person is trying to learn. I read somewhere that dropout rates are far less in other countries Vs the US, probably for that very reason.

Also probably because kids get sorted into what school they're going to in junior high in a lot of countries. Imagine taking a test when you're thirteen to determine if you'll go to college or technical school. That's reality for most of the world.

ETA:

Now I'm contemplating going back to school to either get my masters or a doctorate. That could take another 2-4 years.

....




Master's is 2-4 years (depends on if you go full-time). Average time-to-degree for a doctorate is 7 years.

I'll just be over here weeping if you need me.

[mikoyan29]

Our state just recently repealed the Helmet Law for motorcycles. I only hope that one of the provisions of that law was repealling the unlimited medical insurance for motor vehicle accidents if the motor vehicle happens to be a motorcycle. I don't have a problem with people who choose to not wear a helmet but I do have a problem with subsidizing their decisions when things go wrong. And with some of the jackasses on the road, I can't imagine why anyone would want to get on a motorcycle in the first place.

As for the other stuff, it costs money to have universal health care and what not. Probably in the long run it will cost us less to do that but some people barely want to pony up the cash for things like militaries and what not but not here. Hell, some companies don't even want to pay for a US flagged ship but they don't mind calling on the US Navy when one of those non-US flagged ships is pirated.

[Andara Bledin]

Considering our military machine is larger than the next 20 largest combined, I can see some people's reticence to put even more money in, and of those with per capita stats, only the UAE spends more per capita than the US.

Then again, we don't even have proper full health coverage for our armed forces (at least not after the military complex is done with them, anyway).

^-.-^

[bara]

The only real problem I have with my own country (US) is how money rules our government. Very slowly this is corrupting our entire system.

We need to start educating people again. Thats the key right there. An educated populace is simply not going to put up with crap that way an uneducated one will. Its a lot easier to screw people over when they dont even realize there is a great big stiffy in their ass.

In Heinlen's the Moon is a Harsh Mistress I love how the professor is all about limiting the government as much as possible.

[Greenday]

Master's is 2-4 years (depends on if you go full-time). Average time-to-degree for a doctorate is 7 years.

I'll just be over here weeping if you need me.

7 is taking your time for chemistry. Four is doable if you work really hard. Otherwise you can do it in five-six years at most.

[IDrinkaRum]

Hubs got his Associate's, Bachelor's, and Master's degrees in around 6 years total. He got his Bachelor's and Master's degrees fom the same Uni. They are both in Public Administration (which is the equivalent of Business Administration but for government not private). He's thinking of getting his Doctorate, but sure what he wants to get it in.

Otherwise, I'm happy in the states. Don't want to move away from the country, but I want to move to a less hectic area anywhere in the continuous 48.

[HYHYBT]

This is the first time I've heard of a high school refusing to release a transcript. Is that a common thing?

[Andara Bledin]

This is the first time I've heard of a high school refusing to release a transcript. Is that a common thing?

Not generally. Basically, his high school were being bastards about their long-term storage.

My boyfriend doesn't have transcripts. At all. His high school lost all their records in a fire, so he's pretty much SOL if they're ever needed.

^-.-^

[Nekojin]

My boyfriend doesn't have transcripts. At all. His high school lost all their records in a fire, so he's pretty much SOL if they're ever needed.

Not a fire, exactly. Destroyed in the Northridge Earthquake. My high school's off-site records storage happened to be in Northridge.

[draco664]

As to gun laws - I'm certain I've mentioned it before, but do Brits remember that man...Jean Charles de Mendezes? He ran from police in an incident just after 7/7 and got shot.

No he didn't.

This is one of the reasons I don't ever believe a thing the police say.

The initial reports (all released by the police) were that he ran from them, was wearing a bulky jacket (some even said there were wires visible), was carrying a heavy bag, he jumped the ticket barrier and raced away from police shouting for him to stop.

Turns out that he was wearing a light jacket, didn't have a bag, did not run, calmly got on the train and was then tackled, shoved down and then shot seven times in the head point blank.

All because he lived in the same block of flats as someone the police were watching. They didn't have a positive, visual ID on him, and because they were told to prevent him getting on a train, paranoia took over. Not one of the cops involved were ever even disciplined, even though they were all permitted to speak to each other before being interviewed to get their stories straight.

Hell, the coronor even instructed the jury that they were not permitted to return a verdict of 'unlawful killing', only either lawful killing or open verdict.

Sorry, I lived two tube stops away from where he was shot, and was caught up in the aftermath. It still makes me fume with anger over what the cops did to that man, and what they did to cover up their incompetence.