But you do it too!

[DrFaroohk]

SO...you've had to admonish someone you hold authority over for something he did wrong.

To which he replies "But you do it too!"

What goes through your head? What do you say? I'm always torn between "You're right, I need to lead by example and follow the same rules I expect you to follow."

and

"Fuck off, I don't answer or explain myself to YOU."

[siead_lietrathua]

sounds like a kid, so it depends on what it is. if it's an age-realted task or issue than explaining that may help. (say, playing M rated games or drinking or someting). if it's a house-rule task than, again, just explain. i remember hating when my parents pulled the "because i said so" instead of an actual explination.

[blas87]

I get it all the time at work.

My every move is scrutinized by the most nitpicky, idiot bastards that make up their own rules or interpret the rules their own way, then turn around and contradict themselves.

My personal favorite, the other night, we were told at our pre-shift meeting specifically NOT to do X with this certain order.

Minutes into the shift, my trainer bellows at me, "Blas, remember, DON'T do X!"

Well, a few hours pass. She then comes up to work on that while I was busy doing something else, and asks, "Were we supposed to do X or not supposed to do X?"

Seriously?

[Mytical]

One should ALWAYS lead by example, however..there are things grown ups are allowed to do that children simply are not. Just the way the world works.

[jackfaire]

One should ALWAYS lead by example, however..there are things grown ups are allowed to do that children simply are not. Just the way the world works.

This. And no that isn't the entire bit of my comment.

With my daughter it's simple she never sees me do anything wrong. However she will see me do things she isn't allowed to do like drink Mt. Dew seriously that much caffeine really messes her up and she ends up having a really bad day emotionally.

It is explained to her though that some things are wrong because they are wrong and others because they are not age appropriate. That is the key.

However if you do something that is wrong because it is wrong then yeah your kid is perfectly in their rights to want to know why the double standard.

[Andara Bledin]

It is explained to her though that some things are wrong because they are wrong and others because they are not age appropriate.

It seems to me that in your daughter's case with caffeine, you might want to explain that some things are inappropriate do to people being different.

Back on the "but you do it, too" theme, the world is an unfair place where people get preferential treatment for a variety of reasons.

This actually came up at my workplace recently. I get allowed to get away with a bunch of stuff that others would be fired for because it's acknowledged that even with the stuff I do, I'm a massive asset to the company. My bosses aren't shy about how they let me do things they don't let other people do. They don't necessarily like that I do them, but they understand that my value even with my flaws is more than they're willing to give up, so they make allowances.

As an aside, I'm working on correcting a lot of those flaws, but as the timestamp on this post (and edit) shows, I still need to work on it.

^-.-^

[jackfaire]

It seems to me that in your daughter's case with caffeine, you might want to explain that some things are inappropriate do to people being different.

*smirks* We actually literally had that very conversation this evening. She saw my Mt Dew hat and brought up the fact she can't drink it and I explained it was because of how she reacted the one time she did.

[aurelemsrealm]

There is another way to look at it. Authority figures often assume responsibility for the actions of those under their supervision. The underlying assumption is that authority figures are accountable for what their subordinates do as well as their own actions.

[Hyena Dandy]

Admonish someone for something did wrong, and get told you do it too...

DrFaroohk, you realize that this is an issue that you frequently raise on these forums from the other side of the coin?

[DrFaroohk]

Admonish someone for something did wrong, and get told you do it too...

DrFaroohk, you realize that this is an issue that you frequently raise on these forums from the other side of the coin?

I am well aware of that fact. And what is so interesting is how the result always changes depending on what side of the coin I'm on. Never understood that.

There is another way to look at it. Authority figures often assume responsibility for the actions of those under their supervision. The underlying assumption is that authority figures are accountable for what their subordinates do as well as their own actions.

Never understood this either. There is literally only so much you can do as a superviser to control your employee's actions. At my old store, it was a big thing with alcohol purchases. Employee fucks up and sells to a minor, manager typically gets fired or at least put on a lengthy probation. But why? Exactly what could he do to prevent it? Educate the employees, really. I suppose "Watch them", if you didn't want to get anything else done, and you live there and never ever sleep.

[Nekojin]

I am well aware of that fact. And what is so interesting is how the result always changes depending on what side of the coin I'm on. Never understood that.

That basic reason is that you're the person who is present, and when someone complains about a situation, some people are naturally going to assume that they're asking for advice. As such, the message is tailored to the recipient.

You can only control what you do. You cannot control others and make them behave in the manner you desire, not even when you have a position of authority. You can only control yourself. It doesn't matter if Person B is to blame, if Person B does not want to take steps to fix the problem.

If you keep that in mind, advice that always tells you what you should do makes a bit more sense, doesn't it?

[bara]

I am well aware of that fact. And what is so interesting is how the result always changes depending on what side of the coin I'm on. Never understood that.

Always try to do the right thin and you rarely have this problem.

Never understood this either. There is literally only so much you can do as a superviser to control your employee's actions. At my old store, it was a big thing with alcohol purchases. Employee fucks up and sells to a minor, manager typically gets fired or at least put on a lengthy probation. But why? Exactly what could he do to prevent it? Educate the employees, really. I suppose "Watch them", if you didn't want to get anything else done, and you live there and never ever sleep.

This is a good point. When at the call center I was a supervisor, and they would hold sups accountable for everything the agents did/didnt do as if we were some how supposed to be over their shoulder watching them at all times.

It was the sups fault if an agent: called off, quit, failed calls, late on breaks lunch, got fired, was unhappy, unhealthy, unfit, overweight, underweight, had a bad childhood, got divorced, got married, had kids, was overpaid, underpaid, not paid, or anything not considered a positive.

If they did something good that was totally the site manager's personal victory.

Basically lower tier managers/supervisors are nothing more than the fall guys for middle/upper management.

[DrFaroohk]

That basic reason is that you're the person who is present, and when someone complains about a situation, some people are naturally going to assume that they're asking for advice. As such, the message is tailored to the recipient.

You can only control what you do. You cannot control others and make them behave in the manner you desire, not even when you have a position of authority. You can only control yourself. It doesn't matter if Person B is to blame, if Person B does not want to take steps to fix the problem.

If you keep that in mind, advice that always tells you what you should do makes a bit more sense, doesn't it?

The part that gets me is when it comes to assigning blame. If I am the authority figure, and I set a bad example, then my subordinate does the same thing, when blame is assigned, it's like 40% for him and 60% for me, because it was MY actions which "made" him think it was ok to do so.

When I'm the subordinate, it's like 100% for me, +20% for even suggesting someone set a bad example, and then the authority gets -90% blame and gets a promotion.

[Nekojin]

The part that gets me is when it comes to assigning blame. If I am the authority figure, and I set a bad example, then my subordinate does the same thing, when blame is assigned, it's like 40% for him and 60% for me, because it was MY actions which "made" him think it was ok to do so.

When I'm the subordinate, it's like 100% for me, +20% for even suggesting someone set a bad example, and then the authority gets -90% blame and gets a promotion.

I can't answer this in the depth that it deserves without violating the Fratching posting rules, so I'll just point out a few things:

1.) You don't see everything, and punishments are usually handled privately.
2.) How a manager is treated is based on how they handle the situation. When an underling screws up, what did the manager focus on - did they belabor the screw-up, or did they get the problem fixed first?

[DrFaroohk]

I can't answer this in the depth that it deserves without violating the Fratching posting rules, so I'll just point out a few things:

1.) You don't see everything, and punishments are usually handled privately.

When I hear that, all I hear is "This is our smokescreen so you don't know we're obviously giving someone else preferential treatment."