When to take law into own hands?

[Greenday]

At what point do you guys believe it's acceptable to take the law into your own hands? Currently, there was been a ton of breaking and enterings along with burglary in my town. It seems like every day, a new house is hit. The police made one arrest in the few weeks it's been going on. Problem is, the guy they arrested wasn't a part of it and was innocent. Last night, it escalated. When the criminals broke into someone's house last night, they took the people living inside hostage at gunpoint while the other guys robbed them blind. The cops came, but were obviously late as hell as per usual.

I honestly have no confidence in the police coming to the rescue if they were to rob my house. Thanks to my state's laws, getting a gun is next to impossible and despite having a completely clean criminal record, getting a CCP would be literally impossible. As it is, I'm going to start patrolling my local neighborhood at night since I'm up late anyway. We know that it's four rather tall black males driving around a Honda Civic with a fart can attached to it (poor getaway car IMO).

I mean, what am I justified to do? If I see four black guys driving around in a Honda Civic matching that description, I'm going to call the cops even if it means being called a racist. I can't arm myself because New Jersey is a big giant pussy when it comes to doing so. But why should I stand around and let my family get robbed at gun point if I did have the ability to own a weapon and use it to protect myself and my family?

[bara]

Starting a neighborhood watch is a pretty good idea. Especially if people are actually active in it and aren't stupid about it.

[Andara Bledin]

Knowing that they're armed and seem to only want stuff and not to hurt people for the sake of hurting people, I wouldn't suggest escalating it by making yourself a direct threat.

I would make sure that the house I was in and any nearby had adequate, working lights, and motion-detecting lights as well. Cameras are also a good option (even just a sign that you have them is a deterrent).

Having an active neighborhood watch is also an excellent idea. Just remember that the idea is to watch the neighborhood and not to stop criminals by any direct means.

^-.-^

[Greenday]

If they didn't want to hurt people, they wouldn't be bringing guns with them. Especially in a state where most people don't own guns so it's not like they have any reason to believe people here might have one.

[blas87]

It seems every late fall/winter around here, in the little village that connects the town my parents live in to the bigger city I live in (well, I do until Friday), there's always a few people who want to go around breaking into houses.

One time, they actually changed the routine up and started on houses that are nearby where my bf lives, which is about a mile away from my parents' house.

Fortunately, they get caught every year, it's always some stupid youngsters who want money, guns and valuables. But it's nerve-wracking because they've changed the routine up a bit or changed where they go, and NO ONE is ever safe from it, because they go anywhere from richer neighborhoods to poor ones, and what have you.

Thank the Lord, gun laws are a lot better in Wisconsin. If it were timed out right and someone tried to get into my parents' house.....BAD idea, especially my brother's home, because he's always strapped. Not to mention, there's a rifle stashed away near one of the doors for emergency use if need be.

As soon as I move home and have a little more money, I'm getting my own gun and a CCP.

[crashhelmet]

Problem is, the guy they arrested wasn't a part of it and was innocent.

THIS!

This reason alone is why it is NEVER acceptable to take the law into your own hands. If you're one of these gun toting, wannabe vigilante superheroes that goes out and patrols your own city and shoots the wrong person simply because you suspect they're a criminal, you're phuct.

George Zimmerman ring any bells?

Yes, if your life or the life of a friend or family is in danger and you're in immediate ability to defend them, you can do so. But to go out looking for trouble is vigilantism, illegal, and more prone to getting yourself hurt or killed in the process.

If you truly want to do something helpful, contact the local police department and work with them in setting up a neighborhood watch. Ask for their recommendations on what you and your neighbors can do.

You can also goto the National Neighborhood Watch Institute's web site for ideas, tips, and other pertinent information.

[Nekojin]

If they didn't want to hurt people, they wouldn't be bringing guns with them. Especially in a state where most people don't own guns so it's not like they have any reason to believe people here might have one.

This is a fallacy. They could simply be bringing guns because in most circumstances, showing a gun will instantly pacify any resistance they might have had - especially if loved ones are threatened. They could very well just be using the guns as a threat to make their "jobs" easier.

It's not unheard of for burglars to have unloaded guns.

And, incidentally, you're underscoring part of the reason you have a problem: The gun laws where you are have gotten so onerous, that the burglars know that the odds that they'll face armed opposition is laughably low. Having the guns themselves pretty much guarantees that they'll have the upper hand.

This was illustrated in Florida, when they loosened the concealed carry laws there. Muggers stopped attacking residents, and started preying on obvious tourists (who were far, far less likely to be armed).

[Silverharp]

We keep several pointy objects and a mace in the house. There will be perforations, broken bones and more than likely a crushed skull.

The thing is, the way the law works in most places, you're actually better off legally by KILLING intruders rather than wounding them.
How fucked up is that?

[jackfaire]

I mean, what am I justified to do? If I see four black guys driving around in a Honda Civic matching that description, I'm going to call the cops even if it means being called a racist.

This would be fine. Also it's not even close to racist. The description that has been given is that it's 4 black men driving a Honda Civic.

Your calling in on someone that literally fits the description couldn't even be construed as racist unless the person is functionally retarded.

[Greenday]

THIS!

This reason alone is why it is NEVER acceptable to take the law into your own hands. If you're one of these gun toting, wannabe vigilante superheroes that goes out and patrols your own city and shoots the wrong person simply because you suspect they're a criminal, you're phuct.

Um, if I catch someone IN MY HOUSE stealing stuff, I have caught the correct guy. The police arrested someone who just happened to be near the house when it went down. I know who lives on my street. There aren't any black people who live in my street. If I see a black guy smashing out the window of a neighbor's house, the odds of them not being a burglar is...zero.

This would be fine. Also it's not even close to racist. The description that has been given is that it's 4 black men driving a Honda Civic.

Your calling in on someone that literally fits the description couldn't even be construed as racist unless the person is functionally retarded.

Zimmerman was being called a racist when news of what happened came in. All because in the original 911 transcripts that came out, he described the guy as black when the dispatcher asked him if the person was white, black, or hispanic. At no point did he make any racial slurs or rip on black people, yet he was deemed a racist.

[Nekojin]

Um, if I catch someone IN MY HOUSE stealing stuff, I have caught the correct guy. The police arrested someone who just happened to be near the house when it went down. I know who lives on my street. There aren't any black people who live in my street. If I see a black guy smashing out the window of a neighbor's house, the odds of them not being a burglar is...zero.

When it's in your own house, you generally have a right to self defense, for obvious reasons - you know, absolutely, who should or shouldn't be in it without having to check. When it's a neighbor's house, you have no such protections - your rights stop at your property line, and if you believe that there's something suspicious going on at your neighbor's house, you call your neighbors and/or call the police. You don't have any justification for "taking the law into your own hands."

Zimmerman was being called a racist when news of what happened came in. All because in the original 911 transcripts that came out, he described the guy as black when the dispatcher asked him if the person was white, black, or hispanic. At no point did he make any racial slurs or rip on black people, yet he was deemed a racist.

You're mistaken. He was called racist for declaring Martin to be a suspicious individual for little more than being black in that neighborhood (which contains several black families), and declaring that, "This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something." The autopsies showed only trace amounts of THC in Martin's system, which indicates that while he had used marijuana in the recent past, he wasn't high on that evening.

So, we have two unsupported declarations, when the only facts he had were that Martin was black and wearing a hoodie.

Edit: Some people also use the, "fucking *garbled*" as support for his being racist, in believing that the word he said was, "coons." There are a couple of other possibilities, so I'm not willing to declare him racist on that point.

[jackfaire]

Zimmerman was being called a racist when news of what happened came in. All because in the original 911 transcripts that came out, he described the guy as black when the dispatcher asked him if the person was white, black, or hispanic. At no point did he make any racial slurs or rip on black people, yet he was deemed a racist.

If that is why he was called a racist then people are idiots.

I called him a racist because his whole reason for following the kid was "black guy in a hoodie" It had nothing to do with how he described him but why he followed him.

[Zod]

We know that it's four rather tall black males driving around a Honda Civic with a fart can attached to it (poor getaway car IMO).

. . .

If I see four black guys driving around in a Honda Civic matching that description,

Um, if I catch someone IN MY HOUSE stealing stuff, I have caught the correct guy.

So they're driving around in a van : and in your house at the same time?

Defending yourself / others / property when someone's breaking into your home, and opening fire on a passing van because you think the people inside look dodgy, are two totally different scenarios.

[Greenday]

That's cool, completely leave out the rest of the sentences/paragraphs where I state what I'd do. Imply that I'll go on a killing spree even if I said that if I see four black guys driving around in a car matching the description I'd just call the cops.

[blas87]

It's always good to be safe. Even if you make a mistake like phoning the police on a suspicious vehicle that matches the description. I'm not talking about going all Boondock Saints, rather, just doing the neighborhood watch and always looking out for suspicious activity.

Years ago, when I was still at the gas station (where I worked alone), there was a robbery spree going on of various smaller gas stations where they knew only one person worked alone or was in areas where it wasn't very actively on the radar where someone would always be around.

Everyone I worked with was pretty certain we'd be at least an attempted hit.

It had been on the news from the previous hits....the perps were a couple of black men in an older tan-ish colored Grand Marquis/Crown Vic (think old school cop cars).

Well, one night after I'd closed up, locked up, lights off, only had a night light to help me balance my till and do my lotto report and whatnot.....what vehicle happened to do a quick sweep into the parking lot, sit there a moment, looking right at me and the pitch black store (I guess they didn't realize we weren't 24/7, or maybe they were hoping they'd get in right at the last minute to pull something if it really was the perps)????

Now, unless by some slim chance these were white guys dressed in all black head to toe, including masks, for whatever reason that'd be, these were two black men. The lights on the awnings never were shut off. I could see that these were men, and they had to be darker skinned.

They could see me and everything in my immediate reach, because of the way the counter is set up by the window. I grabbed the phone immediately (my cell phone was tucked away in my purse behind the counter) and dialed 911 and said I saw a car with two men in it that seemingly matched the description of the wanted robbery sprees.

Funny thing, no sooner did I pick up that phone and start trying to get a plate number, they peeled right the hell out and down the road. I told the dispatcher they were headed out of city limits and towards either the next village over or maybe towards the industrial park.

Thankfully, within minutes, a cop was there, but the strange thing was, they were totally ready to dismiss the thing and accuse me of calling the cops over someone who may have been lost or just didn't realize I was closed.

Oh well, at least the cop made sure I got out, locked the store, and left safely. They had to have taken me somewhat seriously, because after that cop showed up, I saw cherries and blueberries head off the direction I said that the car went.

Funny thing a few days later, another girl was working the same shift I usually did, and when she went to leave, she got outside to lock the door.....and saw that next door, there was that same type of vehicle sitting facing away from the car wash and right at the store. So obviously, it was NOT using the car wash!

She panicked and called the cops, supposedly in her story, some random person came along and used the after hours pay at the pump, so when that person was using the pump, the suspicious car left, and she got in her car and got the hell out of there.