E-Cigs in public - yay or nay?

[NorthernZel]

Inspired from this thread over at CS.com I chose to start a thread in here to discuss pros and cons re: usage of electronic cigarettes (also known as "vaping") in public and whether second-hand vaping is just as dangerous as second-hand smoke and should be banned/restricted accordingly.

I can start by being on the fence - as I see it, if an e-cig is properly manufactured, there should be no hazard since the only thing which will be exhaled by an e-cig user would be a mix of water steam and glycerine.

On the other hand, I can clearly see that there needs to be regulations re: e-cig manufacturing, eventually a ban on petroleum-based glycerine as it seems to trigger some allergies.

And also, the whole signal value of "puffing" in places where it was forbidden to smoke even 30-40 years ago...

So, um, that was my 2 cents about it. Please discuss freely

[Greenday]

Dear, God, go ahead and allow it. Anything to help people quit. If letting someone smoke an e-cig wherever they want helps them not smoke real cigarettes, I say let them have at it.

[Andara Bledin]

There needs to be better science. We can't let commercial enterprises decide whether or not something is safe, because we all know that they're more interested in their own pockets than other people's health. I know that the one my mother was using let out a lot of nicotine vapor when it was active because it would set me off from across the room, 20 feet away. It turns out that I'm just sensitive enough to nicotine that it will send me into a nasty coughing fit. Fun times.

Outside, I see zero issue with allowing e-cigs. Then again, I see no issue with regular cigs, either, particularly considering that auto and plane exhaust are also quite damaging; we just can't demonize travelers the way we can go after smokers. Yet, anyway.

As for indoor locations, it would have to depend on the ventilation and purpose of the area.

Hospitals and clinics should be no-vaping zones just on general principal.

The vaulted food court at the mall that goes up 3 stories and you can still feel the air conditioning: that should be about as ok as actual outdoors.

Hotel lobbies - probably ok.
Grocery stores - probably not ok.

^-.-^

[HYHYBT]

I don't see any credible reason it shouldn't be allowed anywhere that, say, wearing a patch or chewing nicotine gum is allowed. Which is just about anywhere.

[Andara Bledin]

Right. Nevermind that I just gave a reason why there might be issues with things that release vapor in public places.

A patch or gum isn't going to send someone nearby with a severe allergy into anaphylactic shock or trigger an asthma attack or introduce nicotine into someone else's system. A vaporizer can.

^-.-^

[NorthernZel]

Right. Nevermind that I just gave a reason why there might be issues with things that release vapor in public places.

A patch or gum isn't going to send someone nearby with a severe allergy into anaphylactic shock or trigger an asthma attack or introduce nicotine into someone else's system. A vaporizer can.

^-.-^

The question is though, whether it is the nicotine that triggers an attack, or some other ingredient.

I remember when I was pregnant and therefore wanted to quit smoking, I talked with a counsellor at my hospital. She told me that nicotine in itself isn't that dangerous or carcigenious in itself (apart from the fact that it messes with your brain, that is ), but the REAL baddies were the tar and carbonoxide released by the burning tobacco + all the other additives that the tobacco companies throw in.

So I wonder whether possibly the attacks were triggered by another ingredient in the e-cig liquid, here I think of the glycerin - if it is/was petroleum-based, it is proven that it can trigger reactions, both for the user him/herself as well as other people standing nearby.

Hence my suggestion of banning petroleum-based glycerin for e-cigs and enforcing the use of vegetable-based glycerin instead.

[Andara Bledin]

Considering that in my case my reaction is almost precisely the same as if someone lights up a cigarette next to me, I'm going to hazard a guess and say that it is definitely the nicotine.

Especially since I don't have a reaction to other burning herbs, such as marijuana or sage.

It's not outside the realm of possibility, it's just not as likely that I would react to two separate irritants in the same manner rather than just the one.

I actually just wrote off my reaction to cigarettes to the whole burning object thing (not even thinking about the fact that despite about equal exposure, I never had the issue with pot and that I like burning sage and incense). It wasn't until being exposed to people using a vaporizer that it even clicked that it wasn't the smoke itself, but what was in it.

I don't disagree that the burnt matter, the carcinogens, are the real danger with cigarettes. I just think that until there are some proper controls and regulations regarding the production of e-cigs that we should hold off on letting them be used just anywhere. And I still maintain that places such as hospitals and grocery stores should be vapor free zones. Restaurants, on the other hand, should just go back to having a posted section (although without the ventilation requirement), and bars can go back to being true free-for-alls.

^-.-^

[NorthernZel]

I don't disagree that the burnt matter, the carcinogens, are the real danger with cigarettes. I just think that until there are some proper controls and regulations regarding the production of e-cigs that we should hold off on letting them be used just anywhere. And I still maintain that places such as hospitals and grocery stores should be vapor free zones. Restaurants, on the other hand, should just go back to having a posted section (although without the ventilation requirement), and bars can go back to being true free-for-alls.

^-.-^

ITA on that. Though more "vaping" awareness must be raised - I've been told that several e-cig users have been harassed by non-smokers, even though they were vaping in designated smoking areas. And on the other end of the spectre, e-cig users that got a hard time from "analogue" users because they were allowed to vape in non-smoking areas and therefore "weren't solidarizing" with the smoking minority.

[Zaiida]

Ecigs are largely unregulated because of yet to be known health effects. The biggest health effect I have read about and seen is the PG based liquids and the occasional burning of lips. Oh and the occasional nicotine OD if you mix your own liquids but mostly due to ecigs really having no 'end' to stop smoking one.

I did poison myself with too much nicotine last year. I based my mix on a 38% nicotine liquid instead of 60% that I was using. Not nice whoopsy but no serious lasting damage.

Ecigs are still an unknown but considering it's not nicotine that is carcenogenic it's the act of burning that is carcenogenic so I'll take my chances with an ecig. Plus it's 80% cheaper than analogue cigs.

I have been asked to stop smoking in pubs before mainly because of some of the other customers and not the bar management who say it's fine. Most people are fascinated by it and think they are a great idea. I do err on the side of caution and use an ecig in areas that are acceptable for real smokers to avoid conflict and people with unknown allergies. In my house is another story, I vape everywhere.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I remember a bloke sucking on what seemed to be a biro, cept it gave out a cloud of smoke and asking for a hit. XD It ended up being passed round the pub; not a single person objected. Then again, this e-cig didn't look like a real cigarette. I suppose some people might object if they see one that looks like a real ciggie, simply cuz of association.

[Eisa]

Yay on e-cigs. My friend has one and I thought it was fascinating. He let me try it. I've never taken up smoking and a large part of that is because of how badly it affects my asthma, but e-cigs don't affect my asthma at all, so it's tempting...

[telecom_goddess]

Yes. E cigs should be allowed everywhere. I still smoke but I'm trying to go back on Ecigs like I was before. I use mine wherever I want and if people don't like it too bad. It's not smoke, nothing is no fire, and it affects no one outside of a foot radius.

I've used mine at my desk a lot and no one has even noticed. If anyone tries to ban them I'm not going to pay attention. It's ridiculous.

And yes it's not nicotine that is that harmful it's the other junk put in real cigarettes.

[the_std]

telecom_goddess, your assertion that it affects no one "outside of a one-foot radius" has been demonstrably disproven - Andara has experienced negative reactions due to the nicotine vapour from across a room... So your entire argument needs to be rethought there.

It's a courtesy to the people in a debate to familiarize yourself with the points already made so that you're not just rehashing disproven or dismissed theories/statements.

[Andara Bledin]

The idea that e-cigs affect nobody out of the immediate radius of the user is the same flawed argument that people who douse themselves in body spray use.

The vapor from an e-cig, much like with body sprays, will waft around at the general level as the air that people are trying to breathe. Doing either in an enclosed space without the allowance of those nearby is rude and inconsiderate.

^-.-^

[powerboy]

I honestly do not mind them in public.