E-Cigs in public - yay or nay?

[dendawg]

My :

A cigarette is a cigarette, electronic or otherwise, and should be treated as such. To allow eCigs in a venue where conventional cigs are banned is favoritism at best.

[Zaiida]

One thing I have noticed with the ecig 'smoke' is when you take a drag, hold it in for, lets say, 5-6 seconds you blow no 'smoke' at all. Ecigs do require a slightly different system to real cigs anyway and this technique is handy if you want to do a sneaky smoke like I sometimes do. It works even better if you have an ecig that does not look like a real cig. I have one that looks like a mascara tube and no one bats an eye other than thinking WTF is she doing chewing on a mascara tube.

I do avoid 'smoking' in enclosed spaces like a small classrom and I do ask for permission to 'smoke' in other peoples' houses. Saves time and hassle and it's not a burden if they say No, I just smoke outside with the other smokers. Real smoke does not bother me because smoking real cigs for nearly 15 years has taken my sense of smell mostly away and it never came back.

I do think egis are much better for people health wise and financially but it's going to take quite a few years until the health effects are properly known. I mean I wouldn't blow smoke in someones' face (unless they ask me lol 'I can't smell anything, that's amazing do it again) and for possible PG allegies and I stay away from kids 16 and under while 'smoking'. Hell I didn't know I was sensitive until I did a process of elimination.

I breathe in more crap doing a day trip to Melbourne then I ever did smoking. I wheeze, cough up crud and my tissues are nearly black for 2 days after a trip down there and I get sick. Never noticed it when I lived there and smoked real cigs. It's amazing the crap we breathe in in general.

[HYHYBT]

Right. Nevermind that I just gave a reason why there might be issues with things that release vapor in public places.

Sincerest apologies. I was in a bit of a hurry and misunderstood your post to be a general and unproven statement, rather than personal experience.

[Skunkle]

I have an e-cig that I use - with nic-free cartridges - for the look. Smoking a cigarette, with the right outfit and in the right crowd, is undeniably elegant. The effect a cigarette has on the user's health, not to mention on the health of those nearby, is everything but. I use a black one with a blue light, and it is obviously not an actual cigarette. But I always, ALWAYS ask permission before using it.

The vapor used in e-cigs is propylene glycol, same stuff that's in a theatrical fog machine. Actually, that's exactly what an e-cig's atomizer is: a tiny fog machine. The "fog fluid" is propylene glycol, flavoring and, in many cases, liquid nicotine. On the one hand, propylene glycol fog has been used alongside oxygen as a breathing substance to aid in healing for victims of fires who have lung damage from smoke---
---and, on the other hand, some (but not most) asthmatics, and some other people as well, are sensitive to propylene glycol fog.

It is believed that there's very little nicotine in what the vaper exhales. There is, however, some of the flavoring, and many e-cigs are flavored so that they taste like cigarettes - in some cases where users buy fluid and fill their own cartridges (called "dripping") you can buy fluid that's said to taste like specific brands of cigarettes. (My cartridges have fruity flavors) If someone is sensitive to cigarettes, they may react to the vapor, not because it has nicotine, but because it smells/tastes like a cigarette. Ew. I've been told, even outdoors, that people nearby can smell the flavors I'm using.

One issue is, as has been noted, the resemblance to real smokes (e-cig users who go for lingo call real cigarettes "analog" smokes). My e-cig, being black with a blue light, invites questions. Some vapers like that. Many just want to be left alone, and for them - and for the many who don't care and just buy a generic, cheap e-cig - there are models that're colored like the real thing, with an orange light, white body and golden brown cartridge "filter." I'm sure you see where I'm going...
...guy is using one of those in a no-smoking area, and smokers see it, think it's real, and light up. When told to put it out, "But that guy is smoking too!" When told, but HIS is electronic, "Well, that's not fair!!" Hence the reason many no-smoking places ban e-cigs as well - which is, again, why I always ask. If I'm in a smaller space, I ask people around me, too, just as when I'm in a smaller space where smoking IS allowed, I ask before lighting my pipe or a cigar. There are too many inconsiderate smokers. I enjoy breaking that mold.

I can't say with 100% certainty why this or that person is affected by being around an e-cig. It could be a psychosomatic reaction to seeing a "cigarette" and smelling a "cigarette," or it could be real and, if it is real, could have a few different causes. So I err on the side of caution.

[AdminAssistant]

It could be a psychosomatic reaction to seeing a "cigarette" and smelling a "cigarette," or it could be real and, if it is real, could have a few different causes.

Learning that it is in essence a tiny fog machine makes these reactions make so much sense. The fog from a dry ice fog machine is completely harmless and safe. Yet, every time I was on a show that used one, we'd watch from backstage. As soon as the fog made its way across the stage we'd count one...two....three....NOW, and listen as the coughs worked their way from the front row all the way to the back. There's nothing in it to make a person cough, but people have such a strong reaction to "smoke" that they can't help themselves from coughing their damned head off.

[the_std]

There's nothing in it to make a person cough, but people have such a strong reaction to "smoke" that they can't help themselves from coughing their damned head off.

Or you could be me, one of those asthmatics who is sensitive to propylene glycol (and tested mildly allergic) so the coughing isn't fake.

[AdminAssistant]

Same reaction with machines that only use dry ice and water.

But, for the record, your reaction is why shows are required provide a warning posted outside of the theatre if fog machines are used or if there is smoking. (This is alongside warnings for flashing lights, gunshots, violence, language, etc.)

[the_std]

Yes, and if I really want to see the show that contains that fog machine, I will go anyways and try to cough as little as possible. But only shows that I will feel sad for not having seen.

[telecom_goddess]

Learning that it is in essence a tiny fog machine makes these reactions make so much sense. The fog from a dry ice fog machine is completely harmless and safe. Yet, every time I was on a show that used one, we'd watch from backstage. As soon as the fog made its way across the stage we'd count one...two....three....NOW, and listen as the coughs worked their way from the front row all the way to the back. There's nothing in it to make a person cough, but people have such a strong reaction to "smoke" that they can't help themselves from coughing their damned head off.

I own a fog machine that has a liquid you put in it. When that gets going good in an enclosed room it makes me cough like crazy. There's something in that mist that develops that my lungs don't like. It's not a reaction to seeing smoke though. And that's only huge amounts in a smaller space.

As for the vapor from an e cig, it's such a minute amount I don't see how it can possibly affect anyone. The vapor doesn't hang in a cloud like actual smoke can. It just evaporates. There is no reason why they should be treated the same as real cigs there are as different as night and day in the way they work.

As for how they look I have one that looks like a real cigarette with a red tip and one that is dark with a blue tip.

It'd be interesting to conduct an experiment with the non nicotine e cigs and see if the same reactions that some have develop then. If so it's either the vapor base itself or psychological based because of what is being perceived as smoking even though it's not.

ETA: I really have no problems with cigarettes being banned where they are. While I don't think people can get sick from second hand smoke it does leave a smell behind and a nasty film on stuff. But Ecigs are not the same and should not be treated the same.

[Andara Bledin]

As for the vapor from an e cig, it's such a minute amount I don't see how it can possibly affect anyone. The vapor doesn't hang in a cloud like actual smoke can. It just evaporates.

First, whether you do or don't see, it absolutely does affect me. When I was in the car and my mom started vaping, I had a coughing fit that was just shy of how I felt when I had bronchitis. That was the event that clued me in that the coughing fits in the house were due to their ecigs. Since I can see where cigarette smoke is going, I can avoid that, otherwise I suspect I'd have a similar reaction.

And now that I know that the stuff in them is the same stuff they use in fog machines, I can also say it's not that as I have zero issues around fog machines of any variety. I can be playing around in the middle of a cloud of fog machine fog with barely more than a tickle at the back of my throat.

Also, it doesn't "just evaporate." Evaporation is conversion of a liquid to a gas, and the vapor is already a gas. It might dissipate, but that just means it gets thinned out, not that it goes away. Conservation of mass dictates that such a thing is impossible.

^-.-^

[NorthernZel]

I did poison myself with too much nicotine last year. I based my mix on a 38% nicotine liquid instead of 60% that I was using. Not nice whoopsy but no serious lasting damage.

Late with this reply, but as a newly ecig "n00b" (on day 2 I've already cut my analogue cigarettes down by 80% - yay me!) I'd recommend a so-called "clearomizer", which is an atomizer one can see through. This way I can mix liquids exactly as I want AND hold track of how much liquid I'm vaping through a day. Right now (since I'm attempting to replace the cigarettes) I'm operating with two "tobacco" blends, but I'm planning on mixing a tobacco/fruit blend soon. All my liquids contain the same amount of nicotine so no risk of overdosing here.

[AmbrosiaWriter]

My boyfriend uses Blu cigs (you can get them to look like real cigs or black with a blue light.) I've watched him and the tip will actually start flashing like mad when he's been puffing too long on it. It's true that he's had trouble adjusting because "it doesn't burn down so I just keep inhaling" but he's gotten into the habit of every time he takes a puff he moves his hand so he can see the little blue light at the end. (Not to mention one time he nearly threw the entire atomizer and cartridge out the car window when he was done with it, because that's what he did with his cigarette butts. Luckily all that happened was a TINK as it bounced off the closed window.)

If he sees it flashing like crazy he puts the thing down, but at this point he's kind of gotten into the grove and stops long before the e-cig starts yelling at him.

Honestly I don't think they should have all the same bans as real cigarettes. The ingredients in an e-cig are much less harmful than the THOUSANDS of chemicals that get generated released by burning tobacco cigarettes. Hundreds of them you can't get rid of either, since they are created just by burning the tobacco.

Now, depending on situation, if someone requests that you don't use the e-cig around them then you should take it into sincere consideration is my opinion. If they're just being a dick - as some of my boyfriend's co-workers were because they smoked tobacco cigarettes - then feel free to ignore them. If the smell is bothering them, or if they start coughing (even if it is only psychosomatic) then see if you can find a way to avoid affecting them.

Of course, as I said, that depends on the situation. I just don't think anyone should hardline themselves against everyone who requests that they don't use the e-cig around them.

[blas87]

I was not a fan of the e-cig as far as me trying it.

If people are using it to try to quit, then I don't see why they can't be allowed in places where regular smoking is still allowed.

Probably not a popular opinion, but I don't see why they should be allowed in places where smoking is banned already. You can do your grocery shopping without needing a smoke until you leave, as with eating a meal.

When my work place first banned smoking in general, even the e-ciggs, I was kind of pissed that they wouldn't at least allow the e-cigging outside. I still believe that, actually. But now we're allowed to go across the street to smoke as long as we're punched out.

[Eisa]

I do think they should be allowed more places than regular cigarettes because they aren't as toxic (even though they do affect some people and so that should be taken into account as well). Although I suppose it still can be difficult to tell at a glance whether or not it's an e-cig necessarily. I don't know.

[HYHYBT]

This seems to me a lot like the peanut butter thread a while back. Both hinge on how much obligation we have to avoid triggering rare conditions other people might possibly have.