I propose a class for either late highschool or early college

[Andara Bledin]

But instructions are given. That's the whole point.

It's a lesson that the fastest way to do the job right is to read the instructions completely before you even begin.

It's depressing that so many people fail to grasp the concept of an object lesson.

[SongsOfDragons]

I'm thinking a good addition to this instructional instruction class would be how to read recipes.

The number of people I've met who can't get their head around a simple recipe...a jargon-buster might be an idea first, but following a recipe is really important. Even something as simple as microwaving something! They just whack it in on full for five minutes then complain when it's charred on the outside and still frozen in the middle.

Or, mapreading. Perhaps not SU106457 kind of stuff (even though I know paper maps still sell like hotcakes )... How to find correct postcodes for the satnav. How to use landmarks and topography to find a place you only half-know on Google Maps...

[Rageaholic]

I really hate those tests.

Because every other test you encounter in your school career goes through in that order. Do this, do that, do the other. Read everything, only do the first two, is something that you never have to do. There are plenty of counter-intuitively labeled things, but nothing that's going to accidentally trick you like that.

I don't like it, because it just feels like "Ha! Gotcha! You did what we've trained you to do, but this time it's wrong!"

You know, when you put it that way, those tests start sounding like dick moves. The mind can't be on full alert 24/7. That's why we create heuristics, routines to help us through certain tasks, so that we can learn easier and rest the mind. Even if the tests are not actually deceptive in the literal sense, the intent is still the same.

I actually had a teacher pull one of these in kindergarten (don't know if it was intentional or not). She handed out a printout of six bars of different heights. She wanted us to color the tallest bar a certain color and the shortest bar a different color. What confused students was what to do with the other bars. In the past, when we were given coloring sheets, we were told to color the whole thing. But now we were given a sheet where we didn't have to color everything, but she sure as hell didn't make that clear. Add the fact that we were kindergarteners who's brains were still devoloping, the whole thing comes across as mean spirited.

[Andara Bledin]

You know, when you put it that way, those tests start sounding like dick moves. The mind can't be on full alert 24/7. That's why we create heuristics, routines to help us through certain tasks, so that we can learn easier and rest the mind. Even if the tests are not actually deceptive in the literal sense, the intent is still the same.

The intent is to get you out of autopilot before you end up fucking up something truly important.

Routines are only worthwhile if you're paying enough attention to what you're doing to know when to break down and shift to manual override.

And I still have to ask: At what point is an instruction at the top telling you to read the entire page before doing anything else deceptive?

Just because most of us are lulled into a routine that we have difficulty falling out of doesn't make that routine a good thing and anything that pulls us out of it bad. Quite the opposite, really.

[siead_lietrathua]

And I still have to ask: At what point is an instruction at the top telling you to read the entire page before doing anything else deceptive?

this seems to be the thing people are really contending over. it doesn't matter if it is a speed test or you have hours to do it. if you don't follow the basic instruction of "read the entire page" then it's not the teacher's fault if people fail.
you don't follow instructions, you fail, it's that simple.

and the lesson of 'read everything before continuing' is very valid. hell i have coworkers that can't put displays together because they don't bother to read the whole sheet before starting.

[HYHYBT]

It's depressing that so many people fail to grasp the concept of an object lesson.

This statement is completely unsupported by anything in this thread. The false (in essence false, no matter what weaselly stretches you may wish to go through to make it appear less so, such as "well not answering takes less time") statement was completely unnecessary for the purpose of the exercise, and without that deceitful addition it would have been a much less objectionable experience. Nothing in any post by anyone even REMOTELY suggests not getting the point.

[siead_lietrathua]

This statement is completely unsupported by anything in this thread. The false ... statement was completely unnecessary for the purpose of the exercise, and without that deceitful addition it would have been a much less objectionable experience. Nothing in any post by anyone even REMOTELY suggests not getting the point.

can you specify WHAT "deceitful addition"? because i must be blind to not be seeing it.

test says "read all before starting". this is the primary instruction, not a test question, and applies regardless of any sense of time restrictions.
at bottom is "don't fill out answers, just sign name to test"

if you read the whole thing before picking up a pen, you would have no wrong answers.

so please explain to me how on earth it's deceitful cuz i don't see it.

[Andara Bledin]

can you specify WHAT "deceitful addition"? because i must be blind to not be seeing it.

I'm not sure how the very first instruction on the page can possibly be considered deceitful.

You know, unless you didn't actually read that instruction and started answering questions and want to blame the test instead of your own impatience, anyway... >_>

[Rapscallion]

I suspect that all this test will do is to separate out the types of people taking it, not those who succeed or otherwise.

Does the task need someone who gets stuck in, or does it need careful planning? It gives you an idea of who out of your group is going to be best.

Rapscallion

[Aethian]

Raps the thing is the first time one would normally see this test is around the 4th to 5th grade. Or a age range of 8-12, I think One of the previous posters was spot on. This is trying to show that you just can't blindly start putting answers on a page until you read all the directions.

[Rapscallion]

I still stand by what I said. In that sort of environment, people will fall into certain types. That won't change much during someone's life without significant training, and a random test every so often won't do that.

Also, I'm awesome.

Rapscallion

[Andara Bledin]

Awesomeness aside, people can learn if they care to.

I got caught the first time I was presented with one of those tests, because I was a smart ass and knew I knew the answers. I learned from it, though, instead of getting huffy over being caught out. It's a lesson that's saved me a lot of grief over the years, too.

[SongsOfDragons]

Like ikea instructions. Always, always make sure you read, count, comprehend and plan from the instructions before you even dare to consider putting two boards together. Otherwise you end up with something non-Euclidean.

I couldn't figure out why you needed a pencil to put together a Benno CD tower until we put the back panel on...then we had to take it off again because the pencil is there to mark where you need to nail the panel to the boards, the spots for which are covered up by the panel itself. >.< we got off lightly! We had to go and buy some new dowel after we misread the instructions on a wardrobe, tried to saw the wrong bit to length and it snapped...

[HYHYBT]

Are my posts invisible or something? Why are people acting as if I were claiming the lie was in the instructions on the test, much less in the one (not the first one, by the way; more like stuck 3/4 of the way through a paragraph) that said to read the whole thing? *Please* read this next three sentences carefully and, for once, respond to them, rather than diverting back to the other. The person who gave us the test made the deliberately false statement that it was a test of speed. This was, by any reasonable definition, a lie. The lie was totally unnecessary for the true purpose of the exercise. How is it, then, that usually sensible people have consistently and repeatedly ignored that part in claiming no lie was told? Especially when I've repeated it in unmistakably plain and simple language so many times?

If you tell a lie, it remains a lie no matter how many true statements you also make. It makes zero sense to answer "X is a lie" with "no, Y is true."

I'm sorry, this is just incredibly frustrating that multiple people make responses that skip over the point entirely and act as if it weren't even there TO address when it's as plain as anything that's ever been written.

And no, not appreciating being lied to by someone normally trustworthy is not "getting huffy at being called out." Had we done the exact same exercise, minus the lie, I might well have failed, but I'd have only felt annoyed rather than cheated.

[siead_lietrathua]

since you asked to address this sentance, i will respond to just it.

The person who gave us the test made the deliberately false statement that it was a test of speed. This was, by any reasonable definition, a lie.

the "speed test" is NOT a lie because following the proper instructions will be FASTER. dig?

1) "hey kids, speed test!"
2) sheet says "read everything before starting"
3) you read everything, and realize to pass you only have to sign your name to the sheet.
4) sign page. put down pen. quiz done.

unless the person taking the test reads at an exceptionally slow pace, they will be done faster than a person that takes the time to fill out an entire page of questions.
you can have a speed test that is also a reading comprehension test. tests are never just one thing.

edit: this is why i kept saying the speed test part doesn't matter. if you choose to ignore the "read everything first" part of a test, regardless of what kind of test it is, what sort of time limits there are, or any other qualifiers... you will fail. and it's not anyone's fault but your own for choosing to ignore the basic command of "read everything first"