Words for 'racial' groups, for when it's needed...

[SongsOfDragons]

The way I see this is as follows:

You have 2 co-workers named Mike. One of them is the expert in a certain subject, and you're trying to direct someone to the correct Mike. The 2 Mikes have visible differences. They could be:

Short Mike and Tall Mike
Fat Mike and Thin Mike
Bald Mike and Long-haired Mike

In this context, I'd have no problem calling them Black Mike and White Mike (assuming this was the visible difference).

We did something like this in Uni. Although no differences in skin colour were applicable, the numerous Chrises we had in our social circle got known as 'Ginger Chris', 'Viking Chris', 'Tall Chris' and 'Film Chris'.

I don't know many black people at all... in fact I don't think I know any. I live in a very pasty an' 'orrible part of the UK. It's beginning to bother me because I've decided this year to give my novel the good editing it needs, and I know I've made a mistake in my description of a Kenyan character Lorikeet, specifically her hair - and I don't know anyone I can ask to have a look at it to correct me before I get editing and tinterwebs isn't a great place for that kind of query. Even posting the problem here is iffy, only the relevant thread and my decision to go on said mad editing spree has spurred me to do it... sigh.

[TheHuckster]

true- but there are a couple different terms which are only ever used in a derogatory fashion. (nigger comes to mind)

Of course. Note that I said this is true for nonoffensive words which people use to casually describe others. Words that, by their definition, are offensive and derogatory should never be used regardless of the context.

[protege]

Dave Matthews has been known to joke that he's the only African-American in his band.

I knew a guy, from one of the model-car sites I frequent that was born in Johannesburg, grew up there, but moved to the US as an adult. When he tried to register for US citizenship, he couldn't quite understand why he wasn't an "African-American"

Along those lines, there's a family from Jamaica around the corner from me. They've been here long enough (second generation) that they've developed a Pittsburghese accent. It drives them nuts when they get called "African-American" because they're not from Africa! They're not *rude* about it, but they do when others try to categorize them. In their eyes, they're "Americans" that happen to hail from somewhere else.

[NecCat]

I think that any way you define people to include some and exclude others (like the hair type described in the second post, only belonging to some type of people and not to others), there will be people who will understand the point your trying to make and listen to the message, and some people who choose to be offended and ignore the point of your communication in order to nit pick about trivial 'offensive' crap.

I was recently having dinner with a friend, who is catholic, who married a woman who is Canadian, but whose parents are from India. Her grandfather recently moved to Canada to live with his daughter (her parents) and the grandfather is very old school about his religion, family traditions (ie, as the eldest male his family should all do what he says) culture etc. My friend and his wife send their children to catholic school, so I asked how the grandfather liked that. My friend said it was cool, a lot of Indians send their kids to catholic schools independent of the religion practised at home. I remarked that was odd, you always think of the British as being in India, if they were going to go to a Christian school, you would have thought it would be Anglican. A nearby woman turned around and told us we were having the 'most horribly racist conversation she had ever heard, and we should just shut up'.

Replaying the whole conversation later in my head, I couldn't think of a single instance where any race had been referenced, in any way. Unless referring to countries also somehow refers to races of people? I think that people have been so trained not to be whatever-ist by the PC speak movement that it has made everyone uncomfortable to even mention a race, religion, gender or anything else that might categorize people into groups.

[Gravekeeper]

Replaying the whole conversation later in my head, I couldn't think of a single instance where any race had been referenced, in any way. Unless referring to countries also somehow refers to races of people? I think that people have been so trained not to be whatever-ist by the PC speak movement that it has made everyone uncomfortable to even mention a race, religion, gender or anything else that might categorize people into groups.

Or some being are just high strung and/or seriously anal and need a reason to bitch at other people. Look, there is no PC Bridgade or PC "movement" or anything like that. The modern term is a conservative boogeyman trotted out specifically because they couldn't slag on non-whites and gay people in public anymore.

Some people are just looking for ANY reason to be offended and/or vomit their opinion onto complete strangers. If it wasn't racism it would have been religion, if it wasn't religion it would have been you ordering the "wrong" side dish with your steak, if it wasn't your steak it'd be why you're wrong for having an Android phone instead of an iPhone.

The reason is irrelevant, its the self-satisfied ego masturbation of getting to harp on a stranger.

[Seshat]

Thank you all - honestly, I'm feeling greatly reassured.

I think the consensus seems to be that if one is simply trying to describe a particular group for some reason, just use whatever works (as long as it's not a word that is inherently overloaded with bigotry).

Bigotry seems to be from the context and the speaker's intent, not the language itself (except for some specific words).


Interesting that 'thug' is being overloaded to mean 'black-with-bigoted-overtones'. That's a shame. 'thug' is a perfectly good and useful word to mean a certain type of muscle-bound criminal. What are we going to call thugs now?

[protege]

Interesting that 'thug' is being overloaded to mean 'black-with-bigoted-overtones'. That's a shame. 'thug' is a perfectly good and useful word to mean a certain type of muscle-bound criminal. What are we going to call thugs now?

Assholes?

The only reason that "thug" now carries negative connotations is because of the media constantly using it to describe muscle-bound (mostly) black criminals. There are just as many thugs of other races as there are black ones. I don't care what color you are--you rough someone up and/or attempt to rob them, you're a thug.

[TheHuckster]

The only reason that "thug" now carries negative connotations is because of the media constantly using it to describe muscle-bound (mostly) black criminals. There are just as many thugs of other races as there are black ones. I don't care what color you are--you rough someone up and/or attempt to rob them, you're a thug.

While it's hard to gather statistics on something like this (besides searching Google News), I respectfully disagree. I often hear this said when discussing professional sports articles, where a muscular black player who gets in trouble for assault or conduct on or off the field; however, I've heard the term used to describe white players who get in trouble.

People have labeled Ben Roethlisberger as a thug after accusations of rape, as they have Zidane after his infamous "head butt" incident, and Aaron Hernandez (although he is half-Puerto Rican half-Italian).

Also, recently, I've read articles and columns describing Whitey Bulger as a thug.

[Gravekeeper]

Also, recently, I've read articles and columns describing Whitey Bulger as a thug.

In fairness, Whitey Bulger literally was a thug in the classical meaning of the word. Given that he was Mafia muscle.

The racist connotations of the word thug ( as in a racist dogwhistle ) has only been reaching a fever pitch in the last few years with the seemingly constant stream of unarmed black men being killed by police. Certain segments of the media ( <cough> Fox News <cough> ) pretty much trip over themselves in their rush to paint the victim as a thug. As if it justifies what happened to them.

Its also a retroactive method of negatively painting black people given that the word was basically claimed by black rappers in the late 90s. Where it was meant to illustrate the struggles of succeeding despite poor socioeconomic conditions.