Dilemma with friend

[Lachrymose]

Hey all,

I'm having a dilemma that is bothering me quite a bit and I can't seem to shake it.

A little backstory:

About two years ago, my department at work hired "A" to fill a new position.

Since then, "A" and I have pretty much become best friends.

Now, "A" is usually quite a logical person. The one exception, and even he has admitted this, is when it comes to his love life, or his attempts at one.

There's a woman "B", also at the same workplace, but in a different department. "A" and "B" started chatting it up one day a couple weeks ago, and it seemed like they hit it off quite well. They hung out together one night, including coming over to my place. I even told him they seem like a good couple if anything more were to grow out of that relationship. There was obviously a lot of chemistry between them. You know, you could just tell they liked each other because of body language, the way they
looked at each other, etc.

Well, it turns out "B" is actually married. "A" mentioned to me that he thought he heard her say that when they were hanging out, but wasn't quite sure at the time since she, according to him, kind of quickly mumbled it. It was confirmed when they were emailing back and forth at work one day last week.

"A" was pretty upset and at the time just wanted to ignore "B" from that point on.

I mentioned to "A" that it would probably be a good idea to clear up any misunderstanding with "B" since she may have been thinking differently than we both thought this whole time, and since he has to see her at work.

So, he sends her an email saying that yes, he likes her but doesn't know that they should be conversing because she is married and if they continue to do so, he would like her even more.

She responded that she was sorry that she led him on in what she called an "immoral moment", that she does like him too, and that it was basically up to him if he wanted to keep talking to her.

So I thought that was that, and I think he did too, up until yesterday.

Yesterday, they see each other in the hall and start chatting.

He then gave her his phone number. He told me that he was weak and knew it was wrong. I asked him what his intentions were. He said he's tired of being unhappy and will probably try to get into a relationship with her and then went on to rationalize it stating that if their marriage dissolves it's between the married couple and the "person on the side" has nothing to do with it.

I was flabbergasted. Angry, disappointed, whatever. I almost said a few things to him that probably would have ended the friendship then and there, but I didn't. I did tell him that I couldn't believe what he was saying. I let it go for the night (last night), hoping that I would feel better about it today.

I don't. I feel much worse. He (or I) is not perfect, but his saying that he has no problem seeing a married woman is not something I expected him to say in a million years. It seems to have turned how I view him upside-down.

It's eating me up to a point that I wouldn't have expected it to.

I just don't know what to do and would like to hear any advice here. I know it's only been a day, so I should probably continue to sleep on it, but I just had to get it out here.

I realize his relationships are really none of my business, so should I let it go and still remain friends as we were? Should I not be friends with him?

Ugh..this is a horrible feeling and just don't know if I'm making a big deal out of it or not.

Thanks and sorry if this was disjointed. It's pretty much how I'm feeling right now.

[Tama]

I'd say his wife deserves to know about this. Suppose this new woman has HIV or another VD?

"Unhappy for a long time" is code for "I'm a selfish ass who just now decided that so this girl will drop her panties."

You notice how they're NEVER unhappy with their marriage, UNTIL they start the affair.

[Lachrymose]

"A" is my friend and not married. ETA: He is saying he is unhappy being alone.
"B" is the woman and is married.

My bad..didn't make that clear.

I can honestly say, knowing "A" as well as I do (well, yeah....I know. Maybe I don't) and "B" a little bit as well, that both are not in it (at least solely) for sex. I think they both want a relationship out of it.

ETA2: This isn't really about them, though. I am not going to step in between them. He knows how I feel about it and I'm pretty sure nothing would convince him to change his mind.

ETA3: I realize how much better I feel now just getting this out there. I'm pretty sure I'm leaning in the direction of remaining friends, but am still open to hear other opinions.

[Tama]

Then her husband needs to be told. Men get screwed over when women have relationships outside of marriage, because women tend to have affairs when they are done with their marriages...which leads to being fucked over in court on the man's side.

[Aragarthiel]

Sadly, the thing about this is, it doesn't really affect you, no matter what happens. I know it's hard to see a friend do something like that but he'll do what he wants to do regardless of what you say, so it's best to just back off. If he talks about it, you can state your disapproval, and that will be the end of it. If you have to take it further, mention to him that she DOES have the option of not choosing him, and that will hurt him more if he decides to get even more attached. It could simply be that her husband's working too much lately because a coworker's sick or on vacation or something and he has to fill in. She feels lonely, finds another companion, and when her husband's back and things are the way they were, your friend will be left lonely and totally heartbroken.

[Kuari]

I would say that A is being rather selfish in his wanting to get into a relationship with a woman who is technically not available. And, for that matter, B is also being selfish. My personal opinion - based on the assumption that B is not in an open relationship with her husband - is that B should not put herself in a position to pursue an outside relationship until her marriage has dissolved or they are separated. Friendship between A and B is fine, but they really should not pursue anything more until B is actually available, and if A pressures B then that is just not cool and he'd no longer be somebody I'd want to be friends with. That's just how my morals roll.

[Andara Bledin]

Honestly, as much as the husband deserves to know what his wife is up to, it's really not a good idea to get into the middle of this thing.

It's a really, really bad idea. And really not an outsider's place, to be honest.

As to the situation at hand: The most you can do is counsel A about how you feel about the situation and how it makes you feel about them that they're involved in such a situation. Also, note that if B is willing to lie to someone she traded vows with, then that doesn't speak very well about her honesty in general.

If you like B, you can talk to her, too, about how starting a relationship that founded at least partly on a lie (even if it's to a third party) is a really shaky way to establish anything and that if she's serious, she needs to talk to her husband and come clean before it blows up into something worse than it has the potential to be.

Alternatly: They're both adults and you can't really force them to do anything they don't want to do. So if they're going to be stupid about it, all you can do is let one or both know how you feel about it, and that you'll be there for him/them when he/they get their act/s together.

Then her husband needs to be told. Men get screwed over when women have relationships outside of marriage, because women tend to have affairs when they are done with their marriages...which leads to being fucked over in court on the man's side.

And this is totally sexist.

Married people get screwed over when their partners cheat on them. It doesn't matter which is which.

Plus, can you really say that it's worse for a partner to cheat because they're no longer interested in the relationship than when a partner cheats and won't let the relationship die? My dad was the cheater and refused to divorce my mom and it resulted in a lot of resentment. Not healthy in the least.

What happens in court is a separate problem that won't even begin to be solved by using it to support bigotry.

[Greenday]

I'm going to give you the same advice I ignored when my ex decided that she wanted to hook up with an engaged man who was a month away from being married: There's nothing you can do so stop wasting your time. Your friend has already made up his mind and you will never be able to change him. Pressing the issue will most likely cost you a friend and accomplish nothing. You want to tell the husband? Go ahead. His wife will still be cheating on him and the damage will be done.

Don't waste your time.

[Lachrymose]

Thanks everyone.

I definitely had/have no intentions of getting between them at all.

My thing though was more of "I can't believe he would think like that and that makes me unsure if I even want him as a friend any more because of it".

I am feeling much better about this now though. I've pretty much decided to keep things the same, but will probably make this particular topic one I refuse to speak to him about since I pretty much said what needed to be said. They also won't be welcome in my house together. I am not going to put myself in the middle of this.

[the_std]

If it were me, I would take it a step further and end the friendship with A. If he is willing to go ahead with something that is so against your moral compass, is that a quality you really want in a close friend?

[Shangri-laschild]

Ask yourself this, does it really change your friendship with A? Yes there is a subject that you don't want to be discussion, but does it really change any of the aspects of your friendship from before all this happened? Does it change the things about them that made you want to be friends with them?

I'm not saying I agree with cheating (including being single and involved with people who are married) but I've known people who are and one or two of them are some of the most honest straight forward people outside of that. Very against theft, don't tend to lie usually fairly good guys. I've found that the morals don't always line up across the board, especially when it's the single person who is ok with getting involved with married people. And I've also known people who normally wouldn't, but then they meet someone and there is something special and it's even harder to say no. Again, none of this is me trying to defend the specific act! It's me pointing out that this doesn't necessarily change your friendship with the person. It also doesn't necessarily change most of what you thought about them.

[Gravekeeper]

If it were me, I would take it a step further and end the friendship with A. If he is willing to go ahead with something that is so against your moral compass, is that a quality you really want in a close friend?

Thats kind of where I'm sitting with this too. This sort of action speaks volumes about someones character or lack there of. Especially with the whole Its not my fault if I destroy their relationship justification for it. That kind of says he knows its wrong but doesn't care.

[the_std]

I'm not saying I agree with cheating (including being single and involved with people who are married) but I've known people who are and one or two of them are some of the most honest straight forward people outside of that.

I definitely understand this, as one of my best friends ended her marriage by cheating on her husband, and I proceeded to give her a place to stay until she got on her feet. We are still incredibly close.

My comment was more directed at the "it's not my fault if her marriage is already in jeopardy" thinking, as GK's comment points out. The cheating puts someone on a slippery moral slope, but actively trying to convince yourself that it's okay because X reason starts you tumbling down that slope at a pretty rapid pace.

[Shangri-laschild]

My comment was more directed at the "it's not my fault if her marriage is already in jeopardy" thinking, as GK's comment points out. The cheating puts someone on a slippery moral slope, but actively trying to convince yourself that it's okay because X reason starts you tumbling down that slope at a pretty rapid pace.

I can understand that view point. I was more responding to the part where Lachrymose commented on it turning their view of him upside down rather than arguing your specific point. I'm not saying that this absolutely should not be something to end a friendship over. Just that it's worth considering how much it does effect the friendship in this specific instance.

And while I do agree that the other person plays a role, stuff like this (especially not just spur of the moment cheating) doesn't really tend to happen when both people are completely happy in the relationship and things are solid even if it's not something they realize. However, that doesn't mean that they couldn't have still fixed the relationship if the cheating hadn't happened. But if the person is already willing to cheat then things are already in jeopardy from the start. And I do see a small difference between someone who talks someone into cheating vs getting involved with someone who from the sounds of it was willing from the start which at least to me sounds like maybe what the person was trying to articulate. Doesn't make it a good justification at all but sometimes especially with matters of the heart, people are more inclined to let themselves believe justifications that they normally wouldn't. Which is part of why for situations like this (unlike in spur of the moment hop into bed with someone things) I'm less inclined to change my overall opinion of someone. None of that means it can't be held against them or that they aren't actually a completely different kind of person than they seemed to be. Just that it's worth putting some thought into.

I will also say that having been friends with someone who was involved with an engaged woman, there did come a point where I was done hearing about it because it took her over half a year to get past the "I love you and no longer love my fiance but I don't know if I should leave him" crap and I got tired of hearing about his roller coaster that he chose to get on so even outside of moral reasons, deciding to not want to discuss the situation definitely isn't a bad idea.

[Gravekeeper]

But if the person is already willing to cheat then things are already in jeopardy from the start.

Not necessary, some people are just terrible and selfish to begin with. -.-

But yes, even if you put aside the moral problems this is still just a terrible idea to get involved with someone that is already in a committed relationship. Its an emotional minefield. Someone IS going to get hurt if not everyone involved.