Great article from Jared Kushner

[mjr]

Article (Op-Ed, of course) from Jared Kushner, son-in-law of Donald Trump...

http://observer.com/2016/07/jared-ku...-trump-i-know/

[Kheldarson]

So... we're playing the "I have a Jewish friend* so I'm not racist" card?

Sorry, what Mr. Kushner is opining is not the Trump that has been presented on the campaign trail. Again and again he makes statements against the "other": Muslims, Hispanics, blacks, etc. That's racism, plain and simple.

Whether he made the tweet himself or not, this is just one more incident of racism.

*I know Kushner isn't just a friend. I'm naming the trope.

[Rapscallion]

By 'great', you mean ... a puff piece?

Rapscallion

[mjr]

By 'great', you mean ... a puff piece?

Rapscallion

Sure. Why not.

I'm actually kinda surprised no one has come on here yet with a Hillary "Victory Dance" post vis-a-vis the email controversy.

[mjr]

So... we're playing the "I have a Jewish friend* so I'm not racist" card?

This line of thinking always makes me roll my eyes. Probably because it's so cliche, empty, and makes automatic assumptions.

[mjr]

Again and again he makes statements against the "other": Muslims, Hispanics, blacks, etc. That's racism, plain and simple.

Is that anything like the racism (and yes, it is racism) of those of one particular stripe who think those of "other" races (i.e. non-whites) must be "protected" (i.e. "protected" classes) and tell said groups that their problems are all because of whitey, and so they NEED the government's help, because they can't do it themselves?

That kind of racism?

[Kheldarson]

Is that anything like the racism (and yes, it is racism) of those of one particular stripe who think those of "other" races (i.e. non-whites) must be "protected" (i.e. "protected" classes) and tell said groups that their problems are all because of whitey, and so they NEED the government's help, because they can't do it themselves?

That kind of racism?

It's not racism to recognize that the racism of previous generations have put particular groups at a distinct disadvantage and that they might need the tools and support to be able to reach a more level playing field.

That would be like a tall guy recognizing that a short guy needs help to see over a fence. There's nothing wrong with the person who has the capability to help doing something to help so we can all see over the fence.

What Trump and other racists are doing would be like the tall guy telling the short guy that he's just lazy for not being able to see over the fence, that he just doesn't work hard enough. But the tall guy has all the boxes and doesn't want to share because his ancestors stole them from the short guy's ancestors, so they're his now.

But it's all the short guy's, the black guy's, the Hispanic guy's fault for not building new boxes out of nothing.

[Greenday]

For future reference, it helps for debates if you actually include comments on whatever you are posting. Otherwise, it's just a hook thread which is annoying as hell.

On that note, the article is dumb as hell. It's like saying you can't be racist because you have a black friend.

[mjr]

But it's all the short guy's, the black guy's, the Hispanic guy's fault for not building new boxes out of nothing.

1. "Mexican" is not a race. Just like "Canadian" isn't a race. A country isn't a race.
2. Policies to keep people out who come here illegally isn't racist. "Illegal" isn't a race. Just ask the English guy who was here illegally who tried to shoot Trump at a rally. Enforcing existing law is racist?
3. "Muslim" isn't a race, either. Islam is a religion that anyone can practice.

Further, who's to say that they have "nothing" to build from? Every day thousands of people come to this country (or attempt to) in order for a "better life". Right? At least that's what we're told.

If they felt there was no opportunity here, would they come?

[Kheldarson]

1. "Mexican" is not a race. Just like "Canadian" isn't a race. A country isn't a race.
2. Policies to keep people out who come here illegally isn't racist. "Illegal" isn't a race. Just ask the English guy who was here illegally who tried to shoot Trump at a rally. Enforcing existing law is racist?
3. "Muslim" isn't a race, either. Islam is a religion that anyone can practice.

Further, who's to say that they have "nothing" to build from? Every day thousands of people come to this country (or attempt to) in order for a "better life". Right? At least that's what we're told.

If they felt there was no opportunity here, would they come?

So....it's racist only if they're immigrants?

Plus, whether or not there's racism inherent in the system does nothing to disprove Trump's personal racism.

There's the implication that if you're even remotely Hispanic (which is a cultural distinction) then you have to against him, even if you're a born and raised American: http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/20...ks-about-judg/

There's the implication that all those coming across the border are rapists: http://www.forbes.com/sites/doliaest.../#10de0fee7076

Claiming that thousands of Muslims were cheering around him as the WTC came down (playing off anti-Muslim sentiment)http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/31/politi...ampaign-quotes

Initially refusing to denounce the KKK among other things: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_56...b03260bf777e83

Or here's a fairly well compiled list of his recent bigotry: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...e_a_bigot.html


But, hey, even if you want to say he's not personally racist, he's doing a hell of a job making people think he is and gaining their support:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...own-newspaper/

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id..._medium=Social

And people tend to judge you by what you say, do, and who you hang out with.

[Kheldarson]

Here's a good break down of why this op-ed doesn’t really work:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate...nd_odious.html

[mjr]

So....it's racist only if they're immigrants?

Not what I said, at all.

Besides, explain this:

http://www.westernjournalism.com/flo...iscrimination/

Plus, whether or not there's racism inherent in the system does nothing to disprove Trump's personal racism.

You know as well as I do that the word "racist" is often thrown around more than it should be, and is generally used to "silence" people in that respect.

However, in the article in my OP, Kushner does make a valid point when he writes that:

In my opinion, accusations like “racist” and “anti-Semite” are being thrown around with a carelessness that risks rendering these words meaningless.

If even the slightest infraction against what the speech police have deemed correct speech is instantly shouted down with taunts of “racist” then what is left to condemn the actual racists? What do we call the people who won’t hire minorities or beat others up for their religion?

Emphasis mine.

There's the implication that if you're even remotely Hispanic (which is a cultural distinction) then you have to against him, even if you're a born and raised American: http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/20...ks-about-judg/

Because apparently the judge there is a robot, not influenced by his feelings or personal beliefs -- at all. All humans are biased by their beliefs and life experiences. To think otherwise is naive.

Trump going after the parentage of the judge was offensive, yes, but it also set Trump up for a win/win. If Curiel rules against him, it makes him look biased. The other "option" is to side with Trump.

The ONLY people really talking about race in the election are the Democrats. Trump has never once said anything negative about race during the course of this election season, has he?

Claiming that thousands of Muslims were cheering around him as the WTC came down (playing off anti-Muslim sentiment)http://www.forbes.com/sites/doliaest.../#10de0fee7076

I'd consider that more of an "anti terrorist" sentiment.

Initially refusing to denounce the KKK among other things: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_56...b03260bf777e83

Ok, well, turns out he'd denounced the KKK (and especially David Duke) years before that, according to this:

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/03/tru...-duke-amnesia/

And people tend to judge you by what you say, do, and who you hang out with.

That's true. Unless that information has been skewed somehow.

As far as Mexicans being rapists, consider the following from a Scott Adams blog post:

Trump did say Mexicans are rapists. But you’d have to be dumb to think he meant every single Mexican coming into the country is a rapist. Literally no one – ever – has believed all Mexicans are rapists. If you think Trump believes it – or wants us to believe it – you have abandoned any hold on reason.

Again, emphasis mine.

From this post:
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/1453091...ump-presidency

[mjr]

It's like saying you can't be racist because you have a black friend.

I actually find this line of thinking quite absurd and almost offensive.

First, before I use this example, I've no problem with you personally, nor most of your posts. You seem like a fine individual.

Now, let me call you a racist. Prove you're not.

See the problem?

[Daskinor]

No its a dumb article.

There is no difference here, its simple projection. It's not Trumps fault you think his comments about Mexicans being rapists are offensive. The author knows him, and he does not think he is like that. So the problem is you seeing "dog whistles" in everything he says.

[Kheldarson]

You know as well as I do that the word "racist" is often thrown around more than it should be, and is generally used to "silence" people in that respect.

In this case, though, not really. If it acts like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Because apparently the judge there is a robot, not influenced by his feelings or personal beliefs -- at all. All humans are biased by their beliefs and life experiences. To think otherwise is naive.

Trump going after the parentage of the judge was offensive, yes, but it also set Trump up for a win/win. If Curiel rules against him, it makes him look biased. The other "option" is to side with Trump.

Except the judge is American. His family has been here as long as Trump's (or should I say Drumpf's?). Trump implied that the judge is Mexican, not American, and that he would side with Mexico, not America, solely on the basis of his heritage.

Yet he's not racist? Merely offensive?

The ONLY people really talking about race in the election are the Democrats. Trump has never once said anything negative about race during the course of this election season, has he?

Did you even read the links I posted? Trump is constantly going off on bigoted and racist remarks.

I'd consider that more of an "anti terrorist" sentiment.

If you actually read the quote (which I updated the link since phone miscopied), he was talking about thousands and thousands of Muslims in New Jersey. Implication, again, is that Muslims are against America by virtue of being Muslim. Muslims = terrorist. This is bigotry. It's racist.

Ok, well, turns out he'd denounced the KKK (and especially David Duke) years before that, according to this:

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/03/tru...-duke-amnesia/

Fair enough. But then why did he take so long to unequivocally denounce them again? Unless he's pandering to them or actually is racist. Both of which put him in a bad image position.

That's true. Unless that information has been skewed somehow.

Everything I've posted has been from his documented speeches. His words speak for themselves.

As far as Mexicans being rapists, consider the following from a Scott Adams blog post:

That works if Trump hadn't deliberately said "some [Mexicans], I assume, are good people". The issues here are that "some" typically connotates to mean less than "most" or even "half". So most Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers. Oh, and the "I assume" tells us that he's not even sure that they are good people.

Words mean things. His words declare that he is, at least, supportive of racism, if not a racist himself. His actions and choices in supporters and support do the same.

Again, if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, and hangs out with ducks, I'm going to think it's a duck.

He doesn't want to be seen as racist? Then he needs to start acting and sounding like it.