Why Liberals Aren’t as Tolerant as They Think

[s_stabeler]

Honestly, that one's closer than it looks. The professor called the protest "oppressive itself" which is not true from what we know (the "day of absence" was supposed to be voluntary- that is, white students staying away for a day by choice" and is probably incendiary. Plus, all we know is the Chief of Police advised him to stay away for a day or two- there hasn't been anything about any actual threats to harm him. Calling for him to be fired isn't entirely unreasonable, if they legitimately believe his actions necessitate him being fired.

[Canarr]

Well... having someone else suggest that it would be good if you and your group stayed away from campus for a day or two is, at best, insulting and rude; at worst, it's bullying. I believe the professor's basic point was: to decide that *my group* is staying away for a day is voluntary. To suggest that *your group* should stay away is not. Even if you "only" strongly suggest that they should take a day's absence, that does come with a certain pressure.

Or do you think the students of colour would have responded positively to a white faculty member's suggestion that all black students should voluntarily stay away for a "black people-free" day?

As to calling for the professor to be fired: I disagree with that, strongly. Trying to pressure someone's employer to fire him because you don't like is opinions is wrong, pure and simple. It doesn't matter whether it's your teacher or your bus driver.

[s_stabeler]

Well... having someone else suggest that it would be good if you and your group stayed away from campus for a day or two is, at best, insulting and rude; at worst, it's bullying. I believe the professor's basic point was: to decide that *my group* is staying away for a day is voluntary. To suggest that *your group* should stay away is not. Even if you "only" strongly suggest that they should take a day's absence, that does come with a certain pressure.

Or do you think the students of colour would have responded positively to a white faculty member's suggestion that all black students should voluntarily stay away for a "black people-free" day?

As to calling for the professor to be fired: I disagree with that, strongly. Trying to pressure someone's employer to fire him because you don't like is opinions is wrong, pure and simple. It doesn't matter whether it's your teacher or your bus driver.

Actually, my opinion is that any such protest idea should really come from the group that would stay away. Also, my point is that it's not hard to interpret the professor's statement as equating the protest idea to the problems black students were hoping to protest- which is bound to irritate people, regardless of the situation.

and my point about the protesters demanding he be fired is that if they feel that he is a racist, and therefore presumably feel unsafe (I am talking about their feelings here- if their fears are unreasonable, then persuading protesters of that fact is the best response.) learning from him, then his dismissal is, actually, not unreasonable.

[Canarr]

Actually, my opinion is that any such protest idea should really come from the group that would stay away.

Agreed.

Also, my point is that it's not hard to interpret the professor's statement as equating the protest idea to the problems black students were hoping to protest- which is bound to irritate people, regardless of the situation.

I'm not sure I understand your point here. Would you mind elaborating?

and my point about the protesters demanding he be fired is that if they feel that he is a racist, and therefore presumably feel unsafe (I am talking about their feelings here- if their fears are unreasonable, then persuading protesters of that fact is the best response.) learning from him, then his dismissal is, actually, not unreasonable.

Well, if you watch the videos available, they show him trying to open a dialogue, and them refusing. They do not show any kind of inclination to work out whether or not he is actually racist, or perpetuating racist behavior - they feel he is, so that means he actually is, so he has to go. There is no room for discourse here, no willingness to listen to his side.

For the one statement he made, this is seriously overkill.

[s_stabeler]

My point was that it was fairly dumb to say that in an email to students. Disagree with the protest, yes. call the protest oppressive, no.

To put it simpler: all you would need to do if not mention it was about one protest to make it "blacks protesting their treatment is oppressive" (I KNOW it wasn't. My point is it doesn't take much exaggeration)

Do I agree it's overkill? Yes. (however, I'm not surprised they didn't want to open a dialogue- that offer really needed to come via a third party. (They probably thought he intended to lecture them about how their protest was oppressive (Again, this is about what they thought) while discussions with other uni staff there to act as something of a moderator to ensure it doesn't become one side lecturing the other might work better. That's why industrial action in the UK is often resolved through negotiations mediated by ACAS- the mediator is there to ensure (for example) one side isn't lecturing the other)

[Canarr]

Do I agree it's overkill? Yes. (however, I'm not surprised they didn't want to open a dialogue- that offer really needed to come via a third party. (They probably thought he intended to lecture them about how their protest was oppressive (Again, this is about what they thought) while discussions with other uni staff there to act as something of a moderator to ensure it doesn't become one side lecturing the other might work better. That's why industrial action in the UK is often resolved through negotiations mediated by ACAS- the mediator is there to ensure (for example) one side isn't lecturing the other)

From what I read, it's not like Weinstein sougt out the students and started lecturing them; it was the other way around. Granted, that's probably not an unbiased source:

For expressing his view, Mr. Weinstein was confronted outside his classroom last week by a group of some 50 students insisting he was a racist. The video of that exchange — “You’re supporting white supremacy” is one of the more milquetoast quotes — must be seen to be believed. It will make anyone who believes in the liberalizing promise of higher education quickly lose heart. When a calm Mr. Weinstein tries to explain that his only agenda is “the truth,” the students chortle.

And, honestly: what someone feels isn't necessarily real. This is where discussion and debate come in, to try and ferry out the truth of the matter. I would have thought that is something that should be taking place at a college - instead, what you get is a group of loud-mouths trying to bully the administration into firing teachers who express opinions they object to.