Next in the political playbook: The 25th Amendment...

[mjr]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...l-grounds.html

Not sure that's what the 25th Amendment is supposed to be used for, but whatever...I don't think it'll succeed.

[Greenday]

I mean, he's not mentally fit to be president but that should be obvious to anyone who follows politics.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

Actually - that's exactly why it's there. The 25th happened because frankly enough forethought hadn't been done (up until that point) legally to deal with a President that leaves executive decision making in limbo due to health.

The mental functioning of the President of the United States is a health issue.

You're right - it won't go anywhere. But if it doesn't and the President does something absolutely boneheaded that causes us to question the mental faculty of the man, we'll know who to blame in that case. And I should say "anything else" since he's already done plenty.

And I should add - like impeachment, it's up to the Republicans. So there's no "Playbook" here from the Dems side other than pointing out the option exists and when it's not taken, it's squarely on one party's shoulders.

That includes:
* When Trump uses Strongman tactics
* When Trump pisses off historical allies
* When Trump appoints family members to positions of power
* When executive offices fail due to incompetence
* When Trump degrades the office of the President by engaging in juvenile behavior on the World Stage
* When Trump's only conservative Win is Neil Gorsuch (which is really Mitch McConnell's win and even then, that's if the stink of abusing the constitution doesn't make you nauseous)

[s_stabeler]

actually, this is probably a good idea- in the sense of designating a committee to judge if the President is unfit- since the 25th amendment actually envisioned such a committee.

it's also worth noting that the 25th amendment is actually an exceptionally poor way to get rid of a sitting President, since the President can keep sending notices of recovery, forcing Congress to vote to keep the Vice-President as Acting President.

[mjr]

* When Trump uses Strongman tactics
* When Trump pisses off historical allies
* When Trump appoints family members to positions of power
* When executive offices fail due to incompetence
* When Trump degrades the office of the President by engaging in juvenile behavior on the World Stage
* When Trump's only conservative Win is Neil Gorsuch (which is really Mitch McConnell's win and even then, that's if the stink of abusing the constitution doesn't make you nauseous)

Sorry, but none of those rise to the level of what's needed for the 25th Amendment. Neither is "We don't like that this guy won".

[mjr]

I mean, he's not mentally fit to be president but that should be obvious to anyone who follows politics.

By whose standards? Enough people voted for him to get him the requisite number of votes. Obviously those people thought HRC wasn't fit to be president (some would even say she wasn't mentally fit).

So that shoe could go on either foot. Just saying.

[Greenday]

By whose standards? Enough people voted for him to get him the requisite number of votes. Obviously those people thought HRC wasn't fit to be president (some would even say she wasn't mentally fit).

So that shoe could go on either foot. Just saying.

People just didn't like Clinton's policies. It's not just that people don't like Trump's policies, it's that he's doing stuff that's insane. Twitter wars like a petulant little child. Can't stop putting his foot in his mouth. His insane attack on those who have voted in the election. Threatening innocent people. Wanting to build a wall. It goes on and on.

He's sexist as hell. He's racist as hell. Someone with those qualities is not mentally fit to be president.

[Barracuda]

People just didn't like Clinton's policies. It's not just that people don't like Trump's policies, it's that he's doing stuff that's insane. Twitter wars like a petulant little child. Can't stop putting his foot in his mouth. His insane attack on those who have voted in the election. Threatening innocent people. Wanting to build a wall. It goes on and on.

He's sexist as hell. He's racist as hell. Someone with those qualities is not mentally fit to be president.

You know, it''s really ridiculous to try to act like the President is "acting insane" to strongly call out those who have been attacking him since he announced his candidacy. People were openly calling for his assassination before he even took office. While it may have been the unofficial policy of the American political establishment for the last few decades to maintain a certain sense of aloofness from mud slinging in office, I don't know if you noticed, things changed over the last decade. Obama also did more than a little sniping at his political opponents, and called out Fox News publically for reporting news in ways he didn't like. He petulantly snarked to his political opponents that"I won the election." He bowed to every foreign potentate he came across. In short, he set the different tone. As for you calling him "sexist and racist", your side has overused those terms to the point that they no longer have any real meaning. To you and the left, anyone who disagrees with them about certain policies or beliefs is "racist" or "sexist", no matter how reasoned or moderate their views are and regardless of whether or not racial or sexist hatred played any part in it.

Also kind of telling that after the furor the left made about the possibility that Trump wouldn't accept the election, once they lost, guess who suddenly wouldn't accept the results of the election? Trying to get electors to defect, demanding impeachment of a President who hadn't even taken office yet? Please. You know, the Soviets proved a long time ago that one of the most common things neo-Bolsheviks and "progressives" use to remove their political opponents from the equation is to try and declare them insane and have them locked up. "He disagrees with our self evident truths? He must be insane!"

I also have to tell you that the approval ratings tell a much different story than your assertion that "people don't like his policies." Yeah, I hated Obama's policies. That didn't stop him, did it? Neither did the Tea Party or other protest groups and the so called "Antifa" thug brigade and the "Resistance" isn't going to stop Trump now.

YOU LOST. Get OVER it and stop slinging mud, or you're going to KEEP losing. A LOT of people are fed up with arrogance from both sides. Populism is making a comeback, and the current political establishment is NOT well liked by the average American. Standing up to them is what GOT Trump into office, and most of us who voted for him want him to keep doing it and holding their feet to the fire.

I don't like everything Trump has done. But when has this country EVER had a President who was perfect?

[mjr]

<snip>

Don't forget, these are also the same people talking about "resisting" and "the resistance", and wearing "Resist" t-shirts. I'd guess many of them don't even know what they're "resist"-ing, and probably couldn't tell you if they were asked, other than just regurgitating talking points.

I'd like to know what's being "resist"-ed. Another donut? Thinking? The Galactic Empire? What?

[Greenday]

You know, it''s really ridiculous to try to act like the President is "acting insane" to strongly call out those who have been attacking him since he announced his candidacy. People were openly calling for his assassination before he even took office. While it may have been the unofficial policy of the American political establishment for the last few decades to maintain a certain sense of aloofness from mud slinging in office, I don't know if you noticed, things changed over the last decade. Obama also did more than a little sniping at his political opponents, and called out Fox News publically for reporting news in ways he didn't like. He petulantly snarked to his political opponents that"I won the election." He bowed to every foreign potentate he came across. In short, he set the different tone. As for you calling him "sexist and racist", your side has overused those terms to the point that they no longer have any real meaning. To you and the left, anyone who disagrees with them about certain policies or beliefs is "racist" or "sexist", no matter how reasoned or moderate their views are and regardless of whether or not racial or sexist hatred played any part in it.

So, "we are sick of hearing the truth so the truth doesn't mean anything anymore"? Got it.

I also have to tell you that the approval ratings tell a much different story than your assertion that "people don't like his policies."

Trump's approval rating is at 37%. Pretty sure that means 63%, a large majority of the country, don't like his policies.

YOU LOST. Get OVER it and stop slinging mud, or you're going to KEEP losing. A LOT of people are fed up with arrogance from both sides. Populism is making a comeback, and the current political establishment is NOT well liked by the average American. Standing up to them is what GOT Trump into office, and most of us who voted for him want him to keep doing it and holding their feet to the fire.

I don't like everything Trump has done. But when has this country EVER had a President who was perfect?

So Trump doing the exact crap we hate current politician for is what you want? People who pay to play get to continue to have power? Trump is the exact same as every crappy politician.

[s_stabeler]

He bowed to every foreign potentate he came across.

um, that's because bowing is a gesture of respect, not submission.Considering that potentates- for them to actually be potentates, rather than ti being an exaggeration- actually wield greater power in their own territory than the President does...

what you're thinking of is either genuflexion or prostration ( genuflexion is when you go down on one knee, prostration is when part of your body above the knee touches the ground (aside from (presumably) a hand used for balance when genuflexing) which would indeed be wildly inappropriate for a President to a foreign power.

oh, and mjr, actually, some of those points actually CAN be indcative of a President that needs removing, even if it's true tyhe 25th amendment might not be the right vehicle to do it with.
1.the President shouldn't be twisting people's arms to vote for policies. If they can't convince people that a policy shouldn't be adopted, it probably shouldn't be.
2. pissing off historical allies is an excellent way to turn allies into enemies. Remember that for a short period, one absolute asshole in Trump's administration got the intelligence sharing between the UK and US cut off.
3. neopotism isn't acceptable. enough said.
4. his entire JOB is to ensure executive offices are run properly.

oh, and it's always amusing to hear republicans complain about people not "gettingiover" Trump winning when the Republicans were no better to Obama.

[Greenday]

oh, and it's always amusing to hear republicans complain about people not "gettingiover" Trump winning when the Republicans were no better to Obama.

At least Obama outright won both his elections.

[mjr]

At least Obama outright won both his elections.

That will be relevant when the NFL starts using yards to determine who wins.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

No mjr.

The 25th is a mechanism to utilize when someone does not appear to be stable. And I'm sorry if you don't realize this, but if you are doing those things with any sort of regularity - then yea, your mental health is going to be in question at most, and at least your temperment to execute the office as outlined by the constitution and about 238 years of prior presidential behavior is going to come into question.

I really don't care that he "won" insofar as a Republican won a national election which pretty much happens every 8 years or so. The behavior of the American electorate is nothing if not predictable.

However I DO care that:
1) The US is not imperiled by moronic behavior both economically or militarily
2) He really has no check on him largely because at least in practice the Republican Senate has been mostly talk.
3) His supporters at this point very obviously do not trust any news source that in any way disparriages dear leader.

So I'm basically just waiting for a Reichstag fire and hoping there isn't one. Because at this point, the party of "Don't Get Fooled again" seems to have checked out on any fact they don't like and that's entirely how dictatorships start. There's being partisan, but then there's being obtuse and I'm afraid things are at the point that both sides want to watch it burn or sever the other side's ability to take the wheel.

There's only so much of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrnIVVWtAag

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAGv2LAfnng

you can see before you believe that either:
1) A large portion of the country is mythologizing liberal thought (and believe me they are if you can call me reasonable)
2) Political rhetoric has now entered the domain of declaring the other side enemies of the state

Ultimately, if I'm as reasonable as you've previously claimed - then take my word of caution and concern at face value. Something very, very wrong is going on right now. I don't need Republicans to become Democrats. I do need them to freely acknowledge warning signs when they see them and put a stop to them when they're the ones in power.

So to your original question YES you absolutely could use the 25th to put Mike Pence in charge if the president's behavior was believe to be caused by sinility or insanity. Will it happen? No, and for the reason I outlined above.

[Barracuda]

So, "we are sick of hearing the truth so the truth doesn't mean anything anymore"? Got it.

No, we're sick of you misrepresenting anyone who disagrees with you as racist, sexist, bigoted, etc. Hell, a white professor who is a liberal Democrat refused to "voluntarily" absent himself from campus of Evergreen College during the "Day of Absence" so now HE'S being called racist for being on campus while white. Average Americans are sick of the "racist" label being misapplied. Like claiming anyone who voted for Trump is racist. Or anyone who voted AGAINST Obama is racist. Or anyone who didn't vote for Hillary is sexist. You can't read our minds, and you're not really making a point about us so much as you are virtue-signaling and acting conceited and self-righteous. Oh yes, and projecting.



Trump's approval rating is at 37%. Pretty sure that means 63%, a large majority of the country, don't like his policies.

Try 44% overall. And that's constantly fluctuating. A couple weeks ago one poll showed it at 53%. Totally depends on current events AND where the poll asked the questions. If you take a poll in Portland, OR, it's going to get different results than in, say, Idaho.

You act as though things are so obviously one sided when they are far from it. You aren't as wise and smart as you think you are, and other people can think differently than you do without necessarily automatically being wrong. People like you claim to espouse tolerance---start showing some of it to people who don't always agree with you.