The NFL vs. Donald Trump

[s_stabeler]

The reason why I personally disagree about Trump having the freedom of speech to make such a demand is the "turbulent priest" problem- Henry II said "Who will rid me of this turbulent priest" about the Archbishop of Canterbury- some knights then took this as an assassination order, and killed the Archbishop of Canterbury in his own cathedral IIRC. Henry II himself recognised that he was responsible for the murder, since he had taken insufficient care that his temper tantrum wasn't taken as a royal command. Same problem- there is too much chance of it being interpreted as "the POTUS demands the players be fired" for it to be acceptable.

[protege]

While I think Trump is an assclown of the highest order, I have a problem with restricting his right to free speech. That would be a *direct* violation of the 1st Amendment. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have a problem with that. Sure, he's speaking out of his ass, but the Constitution gives him the right to do so. It *doesn't* protect him from any consequences, including the field day that talk show hosts and comedians are having at his expense. Do I think Trump should shut the hell up? Of course I do. But, to restrict the President's right to speech? He's a US citizen like the rest of us. Also, where would it end? Do we restrict speech based on stupidity or how "offensive" it is? Or, would speech be regulated as to whether or not we agree with it? Either way, it's unconstitutional.

As to the NFL, Trump can make all the "suggestions" he wants. But, as they're not his employees, that organization is free to tell him to fuck off. As for me, I don't give a crap about football. Too many overpaid assholes "working" a few hours every Sunday playing a kids' game? Screw that.

[jackfaire]

While I think Trump is an assclown of the highest order, I have a problem with restricting

I don't think we should restrict his speech but we should have an expectation that there is a clear and obvious difference between when he's speaking as "Donald Trump citizen" and "Donald Trump POTUS" Most of the people in Government do not take anything he says on Twitter to be him saying things as "POTUS" even though he's said things there clearly with the intent that they be taken that way because Twitter is not an official channel of communication.

The same should apply to all other things coming from him. There are world leaders alive today that do the "suggestion but not really you better fucking do it" type suggestion where they actually expect people to listen to them but then play it off like "ha ha I was just talking out my ass" when people actually do it.

So there needs to be a clear distinction between when he's communicating something like the Royal We.

Queen Elizabeth when using the Royal We is speaking as the Queen of England. If she switches to first person she's speaking as Elizabeth. The President no matter who she or he is has the same responsibility to make it clear when they are speaking for themselves and when they are speaking for the United States of America.

So no don't silence him but instead hold him to the same standard we expect everyone else's leaders to follow.

[TheHuckster]

I don't think we should restrict his speech but we should have an expectation that there is a clear and obvious difference between when he's speaking as "Donald Trump citizen" and "Donald Trump POTUS" Most of the people in Government do not take anything he says on Twitter to be him saying things as "POTUS" even though he's said things there clearly with the intent that they be taken that way because Twitter is not an official channel of communication.

The same should apply to all other things coming from him. There are world leaders alive today that do the "suggestion but not really you better fucking do it" type suggestion where they actually expect people to listen to them but then play it off like "ha ha I was just talking out my ass" when people actually do it.

So far, the NFL has not heeded his suggestion, so as far as I'm concerned, nothing Trump said made any POTUS-level impact. He said this at a rally. Had he said it on prime time TV from the Oval Office, there might be some eyebrows raised as to whether Trump the citizen is speaking or Trump the President.

I agree with the others that he shouldn't have said it, he's an idiot for saying it, and people should roll their eyes and defy his wishes about it. But restricting his speech introduces a slippery slope I want to steer clear from.

[jackfaire]

But restricting his speech introduces a slippery slope I want to steer clear from.

Again not wanting to restrict his speech merely draw a hard line to make it clear to even the least intelligent when he's speaking as POTUS. Also it's easier to ignore the leader of our country when he says things like this because in theory it's harder to arrest people for not doing as he says in this country. Other countries aren't so lucky.

He doesn't stop being POTUS when he leaves the oval office nor is that the only place he makes speeches as POTUS.

I started my job only last week and I was introduced to the concept that I can still be considered guilty of creating a hostile workspace even if I am in a bar with friends in my own personal time and one of my co-workers takes offense at something I said.

So if me a lowly shipping clerk has to be careful of what I say and where to make sure it's not perceived as my work self then why is the President exempt from that need?

[AmbrosiaWriter]

I'm just going to say that it has been ruled by SCOTUS that you cannot be forced to partake in any patriotic action. This includes the Pledge of Allegiance, saluting the flag, etc. So if they get fired for taking a knee and not standing for the anthem, there could be a veritable SHIT STORM that lands on the NFL's head.

So, taking that into account, I do not think it is disrespectful. They are currently partaking in one of the Freedoms that very flag is supposed to represent! They have a platform they can peacefully protest, get the issue seen, without inconveniencing anyone else. How many other protests can do that?

I don't think it is disrespectful to veterans either. Again, they are exercising a right that our veterans are proud to fight for and protect. (At least, all the veterans I've talked to, including my Grandfather who is very conservative, have voiced that opinion. I'm sure there are plenty who don't view it that way.)

Also, does anyone else here know the reasoning for "take a knee" in sports? In any sport I played, if someone else playing was injured and had to leave the field, everyone on both teams would take a knee to show solidarity and wishing them well. I don't watch professional sports, so I don't know if it still holds true there. But I have to assume that most people playing professional sports started out by playing the sport when they were children.

The people kneeling are kneeling for those in the communities that are hurt and afflicted. It's actually VERY appropriate for what they are protesting.

As my final note, can I just say how hypocritical this is of Trump? There are plenty of pictures of during the Pledge of Allegiance where he is just standing there blankly without putting his hand over his heart. So if he wants to bitch at someone else for "not following proper etiquette" during a patriotic act, he needs to start following the "proper etiquette" himself.