Nah...voter fraud isn't a problem...

[mjr]

Or so we're told...

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/no.../287-586659115

In a May email, Dallas County Elections Administrator Toni Pippins-Poole revealed a sliver of the problem after Huffines requested data.

In an email to the senator, Pippins-Poole wrote that since 2011, “174 voter registrations have been canceled for non-citizenship. Of those 174 cancelled for non-citizenship, 22 voted in 38 various elections. Election dates range from 3/8/1988 - 11/8/2016.”

Pippins-Poole added that “yes, some [were] referred to D.A.’s office when [we were] able to determine/confirm if mistakes were not made and documents were available.”

Emphasis mine.

[s_stabeler]

nobody denies voter fraud occurs. However, 1) is the fraud of a sufficient level to actually swing the election? if not, then the fraud doesn't really matter much.
2) pretty much all antifraud methods disenfranchise legitimate voters who for whatever reason were lumped in with the fraudulent votes. Therefore, an antifraud method also needs to be judged on how many legitimate voters are disenfranchised compared to the number of fraudulent votes caught. Quite a few suggestions- like voter ID laws- often disenfranchise more legitimate voters than they do catch fraudulent voters. 3) antifraud measures can make voting more of a hassle, encouraging people to stay home. for example, the Republican efforts at having observers that challenge people's right to vote at polling stations makes it more of a hassle to vote- particularly since there's suspicion they target likely Democrat voters- discouraging people from voting. 4) there's at least a perception that there's attempts to fiddle voter lists to remove opposition voters, so there's no trust antifraud measures will be impartial.

[Daskinor]

So registred voters in Dallas County - 1,287,082
Number of People who voted- 750,649

So we are looking at a fraud rate of 0.013% for registration and .0029% rate for actual voting.

That will swing an election for sure.........

In fact I think more then 22 eligible voters who want to vote don't have the ID required to vote with under Voter ID laws.

WAIT A FUCKING SECOND

Take the case of Ayodeji Adebayo in Hurst for example. Tarrant County canceled his voter registration. But on his original application, Adebayo checked the “no” box declaring he is not a U.S. citizen. Yet, the state still registered him to become an eligible voter.

Same story with another woman in Fort Worth named Limya Omer. She admitted that she was not a U.S. citizen, but Texas added her as a voter anyway.

Oh fuck them.

S_stabeler covered everything else already.

[Greenday]

22 people illegally voting is not a problem worth giving a crap about.

[mjr]

Supplement:

19 foreign nationals charged for voting in 2016 elections

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...charged-795704

[Greenday]

Supplement:

19 foreign nationals charged for voting in 2016 elections

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...charged-795704

Ok and? Trump lost the popular vote by 2,868,686 votes. If 19 votes is all that can be found, I'm sorry but I don't care as it had zero impact on the election.

[mjr]

You'd care if someone illegally voted in your place.

And I don't want ANY illegal votes. None. Maybe that's unrealistic, but that's how it should be.

[Tanasi]

I don't want any voter fraud of any type regardless for whom they're intending to vote. A former insurance agent I did business with bragged about voting a every early voting site and then again on election day. At the time I considered they guy a friend but I can't abide that so I called a friend at the election commission and told him. Now I don't know what if anything came of it but fraudster after a few months turned over his agency to his son and moved to a remote part of our state.
I've driven folks to the polls and I tell them before hand I don't care whom they are voting for I'm just giving them a ride. I helped them into, out-of and into/out of the polling place. I didn't offer to help they vote, that's their business. That being said while waiting a few van fulls of homeless guys pulled up and the van driver took them in go them checked in and then one by one went into the voting booth with them. Did the driver vote for them? I don't know, to me it was hinky and shouldn't have happened. If the voter needed help then the that's the poll workers job.
I also believe in having to show a state or federal issued ID.

[mjr]

I also believe in having to show a state or federal issued ID.

Careful there, Tanasi. Talk like that will get you labeled someone in favor of voter suppression and disenfranchisement around here. Believe me, I know.

[s_stabeler]

Oh, I don't disagree you'd be pissed off if someone illegaly voted in your name.(though it's more common for people to vote in dead people's names.) However you would also be pissed off if you were one of the people who were falsely labelled as not actually being entitled to vote. That is the main objection- that voter ID laws end up disenfranchising more voters than they catch in fraudulent votes. To say nothing about how, often, getting said ID is rather more inconvenient for poor people. (remember that someone on MW probably can't afford to take a day off to get an ID, even if their employer offers time off. (and there's often no PTO available)

[mjr]

To say nothing about how, often, getting said ID is rather more inconvenient for poor people. (remember that someone on MW probably can't afford to take a day off to get an ID, even if their employer offers time off. (and there's often no PTO available)

Again, how many things do you need ID for?

Aside from that, doesn't it stand to reason that if they can't get off to get an ID, they might not be able to get off to vote?

I get the DMV (or wherever people may get IDs) is inefficient. But people can (and do) get IDs.

And a lot of states that have ID laws have other forms of ID you can use. I'd prefer a photo ID, but places are being somewhat flexible.

On top of that, how many people who have MW jobs are working 7 days per week? Also, if I'm not mistaken, people can schedule appointments at the DMV/wherever to get a photo ID.

[Tanasi]

I've believed for a long while that no matter how easy it was made for someone to get a photo ID there would still be plenty complain that it was too hard. If you're not willing to put some effort into getting yourself registered to vote then maybe you shouldn't vote. So many people that registered to that doesn't even with several weeks of early voting, well then just shut the heck up.
Another thing in 2014 I was in a nursing home recovering from surgery and other sicknesses. I was in another county besides my county of residence. I observed how that county conducted voting for the nursing home residents and it surprised me. So many didn't know they were even in the world but someone voted for them be it their family, the staff or someone from the election commission. Was that right? I don't think so.
A cousin and I share custody of our paternal grand parents papers from the late 19th and early 20th century. Among their papers is receipts of their poll taxes. They were very poor folks but they still thought enough of voting to spend a lot of their meager cash reserves to vote.
Voting is not only a privilege but a duty that many of my multi-great grandfathers fought for. My parents made voting a big deal to their children and my wife and I make a big deal of voting to our kids and they're doing likewise with their kids. Just this past early voting both my wife and I took our youngest son into the booths with us. I wish the county still set aside a booth for the kids to vote.

[mjr]

Here are a couple of articles. The first one is from 2013, and lists 24 things that you have to show photo ID for:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/2...ire-a-photo-id

Though some of those I doubt, because I've engaged in a couple of them and not had to show ID.

The second one is Seven things the government sometimes requires ID for:

https://www.dailysignal.com/2016/08/...uires-ids-for/

Why do you suppose that is? It's to keep people from gaming the system.

[Daskinor]

Again, how many things do you need ID for?

Aside from that, doesn't it stand to reason that if they can't get off to get an ID, they might not be able to get off to vote?

I get the DMV (or wherever people may get IDs) is inefficient. But people can (and do) get IDs.

And a lot of states that have ID laws have other forms of ID you can use. I'd prefer a photo ID, but places are being somewhat flexible.

On top of that, how many people who have MW jobs are working 7 days per week? Also, if I'm not mistaken, people can schedule appointments at the DMV/wherever to get a photo ID.

The Twenty-fourth Amendment (Amendment XXIV) of the United States Constitution prohibits both Congress and the states from conditioning the right to vote in federal elections on payment of a poll tax or other types of tax. Don't get up in arms about the word tax. Court rulings are that having to pay in any way to vote is a poll tax. That includes having to take off work to get an ID, especially if you are PA and close down a bunch of DMV locations in the same Vote ID bill.

As for;

https://www.dailysignal.com/2016/08/...uires-ids-for/

1. Welfare Benefits - Not universally true some sates have different rules for this.

2. Registration for Buying Guns - Varies from state to state. There is also no constitutional protection from having to pay for or apply for a gun license. Allot of case history to support this to. Remember the 24th amendment sets the price to vote at 0, and prevents the government from somehow make a cost without calling it a tax.

3. Petition Your Government - This one is on the surface false, its just trying to stretch the narrative by inserting a hypothetical.

4. Right of Assembly - Technically correct but misleading, applications for space permits may or may not require an ID. However you are not required to have ID to protest. It just makes things easier if a situation arises where an officer needs to verify your identity.

5. Right to Marry - Again the particulars vary from state to state, but the two sited examples have some exceptions. Also "Remember the 24th amendment sets the price to vote at 0, and prevents the government from somehow make a cost without calling it a tax. "

6. Freedom of Movement - Confusing 'Ability to use method of travel' with Freedom of Movement. You don't need ID for domestic travel, but you need one to board an airplane.

7. Public Accommodations- It is not required to need an ID to book a hotel. Its just a practice that has occurred to limit liability. And we are also talking about private businesses that are technically NOT Public Accommodations. Hotels are private entities that can make up their own rules, as long as they don't run afoul of state and federal laws.

The other article is the same; Vague, incorrect, forgets that the constitution says the cost has to be 0. State cant even charge you for a stamp to put on the voter registration form.

That's the rub right there, 0. Remember that.

I've believed for a long while that no matter how easy it was made for someone to get a photo ID there would still be plenty complain that it was too hard.

I would recommend looking into the lives of the very poor, or the very rural.

[Tanasi]

In my state TDOS offers drivers licensing testing in every county at least once a month, most more and in some 5 days a week. I'm sure if someone that didn't have a car to get to the testing stations could call a local politician or political organization or church group to get a ride to get a free ID. I've driven folks from their home counties to neighboring counties to do so. Heck I bet there is also veteran groups that would take folks to get IDs.
Is this available in all situations? No but my state also allows folks without ID to cast a provisional ballot. Once the person is confirmed then their ballot is included.
And I stick by my premise that the state could come to a person's home to make an ID and they'd still complain. If you aren't willing to put some effort to vote then perhaps you shouldn't be voting.
In the 2012 election there were several students at the local university complaining that there wasn't a polling station at the university for out of state students to vote. What rubbed me was why does my state have to provide a polling station for out of state students and why are out of state voting in my state's elections? How many folks that have residences in multiple states also vote in multiple states? Justin Timberlake owns some land in the Memphis area, he flew in to vote but he lives in CA. Did he vote both places? By law he can't be a residence of both states. If he did vote both places then IMO that is voter fraud. And it's just not him, there's lots of damnyankees that live both in FL and up in yankeeland. Vote both places that's fraud.