Gun control

[Boozy]

My husband gave me an ASP tactical baton, although I don't feel the need to carry it with me. I live and work in a nice area.

I like the ASP though because it can turn even the weakest girly blow into a painful strike. It also has a deterrent affect, because of the sound it makes when it snaps into place is quite loud.

You can keep it up your sleeve, and if you are lucky enough to see the attack coming, you extend your arm and drop it into your hand. A quick snap of your wrist extends it. Its quite a display. It makes you look like you could kick some ass, even if you're terrified and plan on running for it anyway.

[Dreamstalker]

I was actually considering seeing if civilians could access baton training (probably not) when I was working closing shift at the game store (closing alone, that corner of town could get sketchy at that hour). For some reason it seems that a lot of personal protective stuff seems to be not allowed (as in cannot be shipped to my state--does that mean they are really "illegal" or the vendors are just covering their asses?).

[Zyanya]

For some reason it seems that a lot of personal protective stuff seems to be not allowed (as in cannot be shipped to my state--does that mean they are really "illegal" or the vendors are just covering their asses?).

Some states have idiotically written laws. It may be legal to own something, but illegal to sell it.

I think Texas had that until recently with sex toys.

[FashionLad]

I am opposed to a lot of governmet control.

I'm exceptionaly opposed to gun control. The government already has more control over our lives that I would like to say.

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

If you want guns to be outlawed, only outlaws with have guns.

Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck, using surveys and other data has determined that armed citizens defend their lives or proprty with fireamrs against criminals approximately 1 million times year. In 98% of the instances, the citizen merely brandishes the weapon or fires a warning shot. Only in 2 percent of the cases do citizens actually shoot their assailants.

--The Second Amendment Primer

Now, what if a law abiding citizen had a gun in that school? How many lives could have been saved?

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/mountaien.htm

"No man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

--Thomas Jefferson

What part of ". . . . . the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" don't people understand?

He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither.

- Benjamin Franklin

If you're willing to repeal the 2nd Amendment, let the government control your life. Let them listen to your phone calls. Let them tell you 2+2=5. I'm opposed to all that, and it's already started.

http://doctorgrayson.spaces.live.com...2C68!311.entry

One day guns will be outlawed, I can feel it. And we'll all live in fear because it won't be us, the good people having guns. It will be the government and the bad guys. And sometimes, those two groups are not mutually exclusive.

[rahmota]

Jumping back into this I see its got some interesting stuff going on.

I like the ASP though because it can turn even the weakest girly blow into a painful strike. It also has a deterrent affect, because of the sound it makes when it snaps into place is quite loud.

The ASP is nice. And you are right the deterent factor of getting that snap flip just right with a cool look on your face can be very effective at getting a weaker willed chum to run off. Bad thign is you do that you had better be ready and able to back it up with the ability to do some whoop arse if the deterent doesnt work.

Like Teddy said: Speak softly but carry a big stick. And the Army extension of that phrase: and know how to use it!.

Seshat: Well you could always learn redneck barfighting style. Which basically says anythign goes so long as you're the last one standing. And I'll agree if you are in a fight with someone (and they atarted it. Never start a fight but definately be the one to finish it.) then you are obligated to fight with any and all means at hand to render them non-hostile. Fight dirty and lowdown. All those rules of chivalry and honor dont count when its a street brawl with your life on the line. Go for soft spots not to injure but to incapacitate or if at the most required and there are no other options to kill.

I've worked with my wife and daughter that if a guy attacks them they are to change that guys gender, gouge his eyes out a person cant hit what they cannot see, jam something in the persons jaw and break it off. The means to incapacitate an enemy are quite unlimited for an inventive enough and determined enough person.

[protege]

I've worked with my wife and daughter that if a guy attacks them they are to change that guys gender, gouge his eyes out a person cant hit what they cannot see, jam something in the persons jaw and break it off. The means to incapacitate an enemy are quite unlimited for an inventive enough and determined enough person.

My father always said...don't start the fight, but you damn well better finish it. That is, if someone's trying to hurt you, you take them out. Not kill them...but simply neutralize the threat.

For example, I caught someone trying to break into my grandmother's house one night. Guess they thought nobody was home since my car wasn't visible. Grandma was in the hospital, and I'd put my car in the garage. Anyway, as soon as the porch light went on, whoever it was ran off...after trying to force the door open. Needless to say...I grabbed a pitchfork off the porch, and went after the bastard. Never had that problem again

[tropicsgoddess]

I personally believe that it's the person holding the gun that controls the gun. People with a history of violence, mental health issues (the psych ward type of stuff) shouldn't even be allowed to have a gun. Unfortunately, that's not the only issue with gun control that needs to be addressed. There's the parents who have a gun somewhere in the house for protection and then the little kid finds it and shoots himself or somebody else with it on accident or the Columbine types that raid their parents' gun and go out and shoot up innocent people and then themselves. Parents should be legally required to get a safety device for the gun and a safe or heavy duty lock box to prevent the children from accessing it and have the family take lessons in gun safety.

[Zyanya]

Parents should be legally required to get a safety device for the gun and a safe or heavy duty lock box to prevent the children from accessing it .

Or they could just teach the kid not to get into it. I'd rather have my gun where I could get it if I needed it.

[Seshat]

The ASP is nice. And you are right the deterent factor of getting that snap flip just right with a cool look on your face can be very effective at getting a weaker willed chum to run off. Bad thign is you do that you had better be ready and able to back it up with the ability to do some whoop arse if the deterent doesnt work.

Definitely. Never draw a weapon - any weapon - unless you're willing to use it. And to face all the consequences of using it, including how you're going to feel after having seen the wrecked remains of your assailant.

Even if the other person was intending to rape and/or kill you, doing serious damage to a person will change you.

Seshat: Well you could always learn redneck barfighting style. Which basically says anythign goes so long as you're the last one standing.

Oh, believe me, if I'm fighting to save my skin (or a kid, or an elderly or more-disabled person), 'rules of honour' mean nothing. There are only two rules: survive, and don't hurt any innocent bystanders if you can help it.

[FashionLad]

There's the parents who have a gun somewhere in the house for protection and then the little kid finds it and shoots himself or somebody else with it on accident...

I know you addressed this a little later, but, I think you didn't go into it deep enough.

A lot of times parents will keep guns in their house for protection, but hide it for their kids. So when the kids snoop around, they find it and are in awe of it. They will think it's the coolest thing ever. Be up front about your gun to your child and take them to gun safety classes. I think in the long run, that will help out a lot. I bet if you look at a lot of cases were a child found the family gun and hurt someone or themselves with it, the gun was never explained to them. I'll bet you anything that the parent actually wanted to hide the gun from the child and never once really explained anything about the gun.

I've been shooting guns since I was about 4 or 5. My parents always had unlocked and loaded guns in the house. Why? They were for protection. If you have a gun for protection, it doesn't make sense to lock it up and have the ammo for it locked up somewhere else. Because by the you're able to get everything when you need it, you're dead.

[crazylegs]

I've been reading this thread now for quite a while and only now feel qualified to throw my hat into the ring.

I come from a country that has
Some of the worlds toughest gun control laws
Seen an increase in gun related crime
A fascination with weapons.

I do not believe that criminilising weapons works. Criminals are, by their very definition, those who defy the law. To say to a criminal "you can't do that, its against the law" and expect it to work is naive to the extreme.

Weapons (by that I mean hand guns) should be allowed to those who can demonstrate they can use them safely and can secure them properly. By this I don't just mean 'has attended a course' but rather has passed a course on weapon safety. The course content should be similar to the same lessons within the military (very strict on pass/fail rates). Owners should be retested each year. Within the UK possession of a weapon has never been a right, like driving it is a privilege and should be treated as such.

All weapons should, like vehicles, be registered to their owners, in addition there should be registration certifcates with any nessacary conditions attached to ownership. Stiff penalties should be given for failure to comply.

I am aware that my argument is flawed, yet so are our laws currently, I do however feel that this is a better fix than our current situation.

[ditchdj]

Excellent piece on the myth of "Gun Control Reduces Crime". Note how one incarcerated convict said that he could care less about laws.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_YTM_eAWnQ

[AFPheonix]

I suppose, like seatbelt laws, that gun control laws can add more time to a convict's sentence.

[Boozy]

I suppose, like seatbelt laws, that gun control laws can add more time to a convict's sentence.

They also give police more leverage in pressing charges.

Right now, if they find an unlicensed gun in the possession of a known criminal, they can press weapons charges immediately and make an arrest. They don't need to wait until they use it.

The majority of police officers in my country in favour of gun control laws.

[rahmota]

My father always said...don't start the fight, but you damn well better finish it. That is, if someone's trying to hurt you, you take them out. Not kill them...but simply neutralize the threat.

Yep i'll definately agree with you. Dont ever start a fight but definately be the one to finish it. I'll also say though that sometimes one has to be prepared to take it as far as it has to be taken. If a person is trying to kill you, not just wound you or rape you sometimes the only way to end it is to end it permanently. Something a person has to be willing to consider when using force.

As for registration and the inherent hazard with giving a government that has already shown a willingness to ignore the rights and freedoms of their citizens another tool to opress their citizens firearm registration would just bloat the amount of beuracratic BS we already suffer under as it it.

Anythign else see my earlier posts as my opinions have not really changed except maybe leaning more anti-governmental controls in this.

I suppose, like seatbelt laws, that gun control laws can add more time to a convict's sentence.

And they can also be used as an excuse to go after innocent people and criminalize folks who otherwise would be lawabiding. I mean there is talk of defining a sniper scope as any firearm that can have a scope mounted on it. That means everythign from a single shot break action 12 guage to a full auto AK and everythign in between could be declared a sniper rifle and owning it be a criminal act. Not to mention you have other agencies like the gestapo (CPS) that define any weapon as a firearm and try to declare them falling under the same rules. I mean recently they tried to get me in trouble with probation for having paintball guns on my property. The probation office yelled at them for it and told them to stop being so overreacting.

Anyhow. I have had firearms aroud my kids before and there has never been any problems. Its all in how you teach and take responsibility.