Did George Bush do the right thing...

[Flyndaran]

Yeah, fair enough... politics is just another popularity contest... it's got very little about one's abilities.

I wish the general public had a long enough memory to care about past accomplishments more than folksy appearance and snap judgements about how they migh act in the future.

[BroomJockey]

I wish the general public had a long enough memory to care about past accomplishments

It's not a fact of memory, it's a product of the fact that most of these people have no public face before they start their campaign, so those with a bad past have a chance to bury it, and they play up what they think the public wants to see. After all, it's incredibly difficult for the average citizen to do in-depth research in to a person not even in their own state, especially when there's a force (the PR team) actively working against you.

[Flyndaran]

It's not a fact of memory, it's a product of the fact that most of these people have no public face before they start their campaign, so those with a bad past have a chance to bury it, and they play up what they think the public wants to see. After all, it's incredibly difficult for the average citizen to do in-depth research in to a person not even in their own state, especially when there's a force (the PR team) actively working against you.

Even computer moron I can find things out very easily.
Just look at the opposing attack ads, then research your guy's response. It should be easy then to see which side is talking out of their rears.
So you go with the idiot public label then?

[BroomJockey]

Do you honestly think that "your guy's" response is to be trusted? Not any more than the other candidate. And the points brought up during a campaign rarely focus on voting records except on scare-points, work done other than vote-casting (what committees, if any), and more. Those first two are accessible, with effort.

Now, go find the chain of evidence that proves GWB owned and drove a business in to the ground before he got in to politics. Because I've seen the stories about it, and that was buried *deep.* After all, who wants a guy who killed a business running your country?

You can't trust any of what a politician says about himself, or what he says about his opposition. Just checking "his response" is asinine. Of course it's spun to hell and back.

[Flyndaran]

I just don't think it's as difficult to find out things like voting records as you seem to say.
I found out that I agree with nearly everything about Kucinich.

[BroomJockey]

I just don't think it's as difficult to find out things like voting records as you seem to say.

I said it was possible, with a bit of effort, and you'll note earlier that I said "If they're not in your state." But with most politicians, they're in their 40s and up, and have been in politics for maybe 10 years, if that. I wanna know what they were doing before that, and that's damned hard to find out most of the time.

[Flyndaran]

I said it was possible, with a bit of effort, and you'll note earlier that I said "If they're not in your state." But with most politicians, they're in their 40s and up, and have been in politics for maybe 10 years, if that. I wanna know what they were doing before that, and that's damned hard to find out most of the time.

What does thier life before politics matter? I'm a loud atheist but I wouldn't limit personal religious expression if I were given political power.

[Rapscallion]

What does thier life before politics matter? I'm a loud atheist but I wouldn't limit personal religious expression if I were given political power.

Views are one thing, general levels of competence are more important.

If someone's a loud bigot and proud of it, it's easy to predict what they're going to do if they get into power. If someone's incompetent, it's a different barrel of fish.

Rapscallion

[Flyndaran]

Views are one thing, general levels of competence are more important.

If someone's a loud bigot and proud of it, it's easy to predict what they're going to do if they get into power. If someone's incompetent, it's a different barrel of fish.

Rapscallion

Yes, but nearly all presidential candidates have quite a bit of previous political experience from which to judge.

[BroomJockey]

Yes, but nearly all presidential candidates have quite a bit of previous political experience from which to judge.

Err, I can't remember who, but someone said on this board that Obama had only been a Senator one term, and spent most of that on the campaign trail. And no one's really mentioned any experience in politics prior to that.

[Flyndaran]

Err, I can't remember who, but someone said on this board that Obama had only been a Senator one term, and spent most of that on the campaign trail. And no one's really mentioned any experience in politics prior to that.

Don't get me started on why the masses seem to think of him as almost the second coming. It's not only the conservatives that dislike him.

[Rapscallion]

Yes, but nearly all presidential candidates have quite a bit of previous political experience from which to judge.

Aye, but there's a difference between politics and running an economy competently. Sure, you can schmooze for votes, but does that mean the elderly get their pensions, the children get their schooling, and so forth?

That's the bit that concerns me.

Rapscallion

[Flyndaran]

Aye, but there's a difference between politics and running an economy competently. Sure, you can schmooze for votes, but does that mean the elderly get their pensions, the children get their schooling, and so forth?

That's the bit that concerns me.

Rapscallion

That's a more fundamental problem with democracy in general than any particular poltician.
Giving everyone, even the morons and bigots, the right to vote will often lead to incompetent politicians.

[BroomJockey]

Don't get me started on why the masses seem to think of him as almost the second coming.

I wasn't getting you started on anything. However, I was pointing out that someone who actually SUCCEEDED in becoming POTUS has little political experience. Thus your assertion that many candidates have extensive political experience is, while possibly true, completely useless. If someone's not being picked based on how long they've been in politics, I'd like to know what else they've done.

[Flyndaran]

I wasn't getting you started on anything. However, I was pointing out that someone who actually SUCCEEDED in becoming POTUS has little political experience. Thus your assertion that many candidates have extensive political experience is, while possibly true, completely useless. If someone's not being picked based on how long they've been in politics, I'd like to know what else they've done.

That kind of discussion could lead to concepts like white man's burden/guilt getting tossed around.
Personally it looked more like a vote against republicans and Hillary than a vote for Obama. You could also say that nearly all blacks voted for him, because he was black and he hadn't done anything "wrong" by being new.
That might lead to an overly heated argument.
Overall I think his election was a fluke and not indicative of american politics overall.