Did George Bush do the right thing...

[Rapscallion]

That's a more fundamental problem with democracy in general than any particular poltician.
Giving everyone, even the morons and bigots, the right to vote will often lead to incompetent politicians.

Bigotry isn't the same as incompetence, and it's very dangerous to make that sort of association.

I once browsed the pages of a white power site to get an idea of what they were really like, not just the newspaper headline stuff I'd seen.

The disturbing thing for me wasn't that there were a load of thuggish types doing the old, "Hur hur, stick it to them, mate," routine, but there were people there who could put together a fairly coherent argument (with which I disagreed), and the moronic element (large proportion, or just posted often) were eating out of their hands.

There are some very clever nasty people out there. Bigotry does not increase the chances of incompetence.

A more valid problem with democracy is that many people vote based on what a person says their views are on a topic (immigration, abortion etc), but just because someone has a set of views you agree with doesn't mean that they are going to be good for an economy. Hitler (at the risk of Godwinisation) is reputed to have boosted the German economy heavily (relying on a wartime basis for a peacetime economy, if I read it right, and fluffing the figures on other aspects).

Rapscallion

[Flyndaran]

...
There are some very clever nasty people out there. Bigotry does not increase the chances of incompetence.

A more valid problem with democracy is that many people vote based on what a person says their views are on a topic (immigration, abortion etc), but just because someone has a set of views you agree with doesn't mean that they are going to be good for an economy. Hitler (at the risk of Godwinisation) is reputed to have boosted the German economy heavily (relying on a wartime basis for a peacetime economy, if I read it right, and fluffing the figures on other aspects).

Rapscallion

It really depends on your definition of incompetence.
I would say that bigotry doesn't lead to a unified secular society, therefore anyone proposing such directions, is by nature an incompetent american politician.
Bigotry and other irraitional beliefs are almost always forced into people as children. It's been said that we use rationality to fortify postions that we chose for irrational reasons.

[BroomJockey]

Bigotry and other irraitional beliefs are almost always forced into people as children.

And I've met people who become more bigoted over time, and had parents who were very open and reasonable. bigotry comes about just as often through life experiences as from growing up with it.

[Flyndaran]

And I've met people who become more bigoted over time, and had parents who were very open and reasonable. bigotry comes about just as often through life experiences as from growing up with it.

I disagree, I think your experiences are the rarity and mine the norm, but fat chance either of us proving it to the other. But I suppose people become more conservative in their beliefs as they age.

[AFPheonix]

Err, I can't remember who, but someone said on this board that Obama had only been a Senator one term, and spent most of that on the campaign trail. And no one's really mentioned any experience in politics prior to that.

He served in his state's assembly before moving on to the Senate.

Actually, it's generally easier to get someone elected who's a little lower mileage, because there's fewer gaffes to have to try to cover. That's also part of the reason why Senators and Representatives rarely if ever get elected, especially if they've served for a long time; they have large voting records that are available for public viewing and can be used against them.
Governors get seated quite a bit more, most people aren't affected by their previous administrations, and the ones that are usually root for the home team.

[Boozy]

Actually, it's generally easier to get someone elected who's a little lower mileage, because there's fewer gaffes to have to try to cover.

That was especially important in the most recent Presidential primaries and election, as Obama was the only candidate (I think) who could say that he never supported the war in Iraq.

[joe hx]

That was especially important in the most recent Presidential primaries and election, as Obama was the only candidate (I think) who could say that he never supported the war in Iraq.

as far as the two major parties go, Ron Paul (republican, sort of) was against the war

[Flyndaran]

That was especially important in the most recent Presidential primaries and election, as Obama was the only candidate (I think) who could say that he never supported the war in Iraq.

Kucinich was the only democrat that voted against the war in Iraq and every funding bill since the beginning. He had the balls to stand up to Bush that no one else did. Can you tell why I like him?

[BroomJockey]

Can you tell why I like him?

He's short?

[Flyndaran]

He's short?

He has a hot wife?
I'm 5'11 and a smidge. I've got no problem with little people.

[Spaniard]

To add my viewpoint as an Australian who from day one, disliked GWB Jr, I think that, whatever the reasons that people voted for Obama, (whether it was because he was black, male, was a democrat, etc), I can see why the majority voted for him... In my eyes, anyway. He only has to be more charismatic and good in appearance to Bush, to seem successful.

Is he as good as he appears? Maybe. Maybe not. But, hopefully, he's doing his best. From the little I've heard (and it's not all that much since he got elected) he seems to be making choices and sticking to them. Bush seemed to change his reasons behind doing this or that, and hope that no one noticed. (Afghanistan flowing into Iraq being the main one. First it was terrorist links, then WMDs, then democracy.. and so on.)

Then he said the war was over.. Even though, over 4 years after he said that, it's still going. In both countries.

Do I think Bush was a good president? No. He lead what is one of the most powerful nations on the planet... And he dragged a few countries, mine included, into a war that will damage our images in such places quite a lot.

Did it prevent terrorism? No. Terrorism isn't a thing that can be fought. It's a belief, a hatred, a religion. If soldiers are sent in to fight such, (and excuse me for saying so), the terrorists win. Because the war sends people who wouldn't necessarily side with them, to their arms. One mis-aimed bomb, or such, causes a fresh hatred.. And there's the historic actions in Afghanistan and Iraq that seems to be forgotten (supporting Saddam's uprising in Iraq. Then supporting Bin Laden's resistance against Saddam).. It seemed to be forgotten.

What will be next?

(end)

[Fashion Lad!]

Wow, I'm really late to this one.

Do I think GWB did the right thing? This is a hard question to answer. I don't think it's a yes or no answer that one can give.

I voted for Bush and I still stand by that vote. Did I agree with the war in Iraq? I was saying yes like roughly half the country was at the time. The evidence was compelling. Saddam Hussein wasn't complying with weapons inspectors. Before GWB was in office, he told people he had WMDs. But come to find out, he said that because he wanted Iran to believe that he did. We know he didn't. But, he put up a fight for us to find that out. Now that we see he didn't, we go "ok, bad idea." Hindsight is 20/20.

Yes, GWB did spend a lot of money. I hate people saying, "well GWB gave tax cuts to the rich." Which is only half the truth. Everyone who was paying taxes got a tax cut.

And yes, he was handed a budget surplus. He tried to give the money back to the people. I honestly feel that he was a guy that wanted everyone to keep what they earn. And I'm sure a lot of us would love if we didn't have to pay taxes. You can't honestly tell me that you would be mad if you didn't have to pay taxes. "Fuck you. You see my check of $100? You're taking $25 of it whether you like it or not." I don't see any of us saying that.

I do think much of his first term and half way into the second term was really run by Cheney. And, I didn't and still don't like Cheney. I think he really was evil. In the last 2 years of office, I'd say Bush showed a lot more flexibility in his policies. He was leaning more middle ground and less "my way or the highway".

I respect GWB not for his policies. I respect him for respecting other people as he really has. When Bush took office, Clinton didn't do a whole lot for the Bush team in terms of transition. Bush was very concerned about the transition of power and did whatever he could to make sure it was as smooth as could be.

[QUOTE]I begin, with the good. George W. Bush in my opinion is a good guy. If you were to meet him in person, without the title of president, I would wager he would be kind, courteous, and even jovial with you. Mr. Bush is a man with good intentions, a caring heart, and a strong, deep love for his country.[/QUOTE]

No, I don't think he did the right thing. In all honestly, I believe he truly did think he was doing what was best for America.