Flying the American flag upside down?

[Mr Slugger]

Ok this one honestly is close to home. Really the business is a minute from my house and I know the upset mother in question. They are friends of the family.
So here's the link. Flying The Flag Upside Down

And just to go over it in case the link comes down. Basically a Rockland business is flying the american flag upside down because of problems with the town pulling his business license. Of course pretty much directly across the street is the home of a woman who lost her son in Iraq, and has become a pillar of support for veterans in our community. I'm talking helping every way possible for veterans day, memorial day, and 4th of July, as well as war memorial, things for the police & fire as well. She's done alot and when you drive around town you can see the stuff she's done. Needless of say of course she's upset and alot of people in the town are upset.

So what do you think?

Now like I said I know this family. They are a family that believes you have the right to say what you want about the war, but always support the troops and give them thanks.

Now I fully respect free speech, and as the story says they cops have heard complaints, but they can't do nothing.

So now for my stance I guess. The big problems for me is if it was about the war, and this guy was flying the flag upside down as a protest of the war, even though I think it's just not cool to fly a upside down flag right in front of the home of a fallen soldier, I could respect his opinion because it's the war.

However this is a person who is flying the flag upside down because he's got a beef with the town. He didn't put up a sign, or picket in front of town hall to protest. Instead he flew the flag upside down. Which I'm sure he knew would send his neighbor across the way along with some vets into a nutty.

To me it's really disrespectful. I mean put a huge billboard in front of your business saying this town sucks. I'd be ok with that because to him they do.

[the_std]

Mostly, I'm thinking, "So what?", why does it matter that he's flying the flag upside down? But then again, I'm a Canadian and we don't have nearly the same uber-patriotic symbolism tied to our flag that Americans seem to.

But really, if he's doing it to protest the city pulling his business license, NOT the war, why does the woman care if he's doing it? This man is not undoing the woman's many works of charity and he's not taking away any significance that her acts have. So, again, why does it matter? I really just don't get it.

[Flyndaran]

Mostly, I'm thinking, "So what?", why does it matter that he's flying the flag upside down? But then again, I'm a Canadian and we don't have nearly the same uber-patriotic symbolism tied to our flag that Americans seem to.

But really, if he's doing it to protest the city pulling his business license, NOT the war, why does the woman care if he's doing it? This man is not undoing the woman's many works of charity and he's not taking away any significance that her acts have. So, again, why does it matter? I really just don't get it.

I'm american and still don't give a rip.
I would take it as an insult to the nation which I would support. I wish "support our troops" idjits would get over themselves and stop seeing every word as a personal attack. If I wanted to attack those serving in the military, then I would make it clear.

[powerboy]

Like Mr. Slugger said, he could put up a sign saying that the town sucks. But no he didn't. Instead he is being disrespectful to all.

[AdminAssistant]

Instead he is being disrespectful to all.

I'm torn. One of the other problems is that an upside down flag is, I believe, a distress signal. It's an SOS.

I think the way it breaks down for me is: he has the right to fly the flag upside down, but doing so makes him an ass.

[the_std]

Instead he is being disrespectful to all.

I just don't understand why it's so disrespectful. If it's an SOS signal, then yes, he's ignoring the original intent of the message to make a statement, but people do that with widely-recognized symbols all the time. Why is this particular one so offensive and disrespectful?

[AFPheonix]

It's not like the guy is personally insulting vets or this woman, so frankly, I think she's overreacting.
And the guy with the flag is a complete moron if he thinks anything is going to change in his situation by flying his flag upside down. Why not burn an image of the mayor in effigy while he's at it?

[Mr Slugger]

I'm american and still don't give a rip.
I wish "support our troops" idjits would get over themselves and stop seeing every word as a personal attack.

Ok so this woman who lost her son should just get over it? I'd like you to go tell her that because I've seen that happen and it doesn't go over well.

As far as the SOS from my understand it's only supposed to be used if you're in extreme danger. Like if you were being attacked, and while yes this person says he's being attack it's because he didn't pay taxes to the town. Not because someone is actually attacking him.

The problem too is that he is trying to get his business license back by purposely being an ass. I mean that this town is a patriotic town. It's lost two soldiers in the wars, and has many that are fighting, vets, etc. Down that stretch of road there's maybe 20 houses. And there's a half dozen flag poles, house flying flags, yellow ribbons, etc. Of course then there's this woman who has done alot of the town, has an intersection named after her son in the town, so she holds some power in the town. And to answer AFPheonix's point there's just selectmen. No mayor. However if you know the selectmen then sometimes they do what you want.

Honestly I think this guy decided to try to get his license back by purposely pissing this women off to try to get her to give him his license back to shut him up.

As far as people just need to get over it, or why it's so disrespectful and all that. Personally I've known since I was a kid that there's four things you don't do with a flag because it will piss someone off. Drop it on the ground, burn it, fly a tattered flag (which is pissing some people off in another town near here) or fly it upside down. Now you can do these things, but again you'll piss someone off and if you continue to do it you'll be hated. And the thing is while I could understand this guy flying it and then realizing it upsets people apologizing and moving on to another form of protest he's still flying the flag that way. And when all is said and done that is the problem.

And again from knowing this person. While it's been two years since she lost her son we know that she is still morning the loss of him, and I'm sure that plays a part in the major uproar. And while you can say she needs to get over it, I mean we've got a family member that lost someone 5 years ago and they still haven't got over it.

In the end like AP said the guy is a moron because instead of trying to maybe get people on his side he's making sure there's alot of people against him. I mean I think it would be interesting to be a fly on the wall the next time he tries to plead his case in front of the board of selectmen, with a room full of angry vets behind him.

[anriana]

Opposing the war != disrespecting the troops.
Flying a flag improperly != disrespecting the troops.

The flag is a symbol of America. It's not a symbol of individual soldiers. It's silly for this woman to think disrespect towards an American symbol is the same as disrespect towards her son. She does need to get over that or she is going to have a lifetime of issues.

"Flag bikini? Why are you spitting on my son's grave?!"

And again from knowing this person. While it's been two years since she lost her son we know that she is still morning the loss of him, and I'm sure that plays a part in the major uproar. And while you can say she needs to get over it, I mean we've got a family member that lost someone 5 years ago and they still haven't got over it.

That is sad. She doesn't need to get over losing her son or stop mourning him; she needs to stop associating him with America. Yeah, he's a patriotic American who died for his country, etc, but he's not Uncle Sam. Failure to show Proper Respect to things associated with America has little or nothing to do with her son.

[Mr Slugger]

The thing I should point out from my point of view (and by no means do I use the following words to offend people just to show the point) I look at this no differently than if the story was about a business changing it's name to Retarded Rockland Automotive. Because the business felt the selectmen were retarded for not giving him his license back and there was a physically challenged kid across the street, as well as a school in the immediate area, etc.

Now to me that word doesn't bother me at all, and my brother as well as an uncle are both mentally challenged, but I know many people that do get offended by that word.

[DesignFox]

Interesting. This is the second story I've heard of a pissed off business owner flying their flag upside down.

The first story I heard was of a restaurant owner upset over not getting a liquor license...

http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?S=10823342

This is the only link I could find on google. The original story seems to have been taken off of ABC's website. This story is saying that people have been vandalizing the restaurant since the owner started flying his flag upside down. (which is wrong no matter how you slice it)

At any rate. If the car dealer in the OP really wanted to stay in business, he wouldn't piss off the locals. I'd say he's being an ass.

Yes, I think people are hyper sensitive over everything. But really, if you want to sell to people, you have to keep them happy. If your customer base is telling you that your actions are pissing them off, they're going to stop buying from you. This guy shot himself in the foot.

Also, while I respect this guy's right to do what he pleases, displaying a serious distress signal because of a beef with your town council? I mean, really? Get over yourself! Make up some signs, don't drag the whole country into it.

[BroomJockey]

Speaking as a Canadian, if people are becoming upset at disrespect to the army because someone's flying their flag upside-down, they need to pull the damn stick out of their ass. There isn't even a tangential connection, let alone a direct one between "flag disrespect" and "troop disrespect." If he'd said "Fuck the troops," then I might go with him being an ass, but as a form of protest, this is just weak.

[Nyoibo]

I think the way it breaks down for me is: he has the right to fly the flag upside down, but doing so makes him an ass.

As they say, "just because you can, doesn't mean you should.


I agree with one of the commenter at the bottome just fly the State or Town flag upside down instead.

[Flyndaran]

The thing I should point out from my point of view (and by no means do I use the following words to offend people just to show the point) I look at this no differently than if the story was about a business changing it's name to Retarded Rockland Automotive...

How does flying a sign that effectively says, "This country sucks." in any way say anything to a woman that lost her son in an illegal war?

Just because she suffered a loss does not give her the right to get offended at anything and everything vaguely related to the federal government.

[Mr Slugger]

Just because she suffered a loss does not give her the right to get offended at anything and everything vaguely related to the federal government.

If you read the article there's also been 200 phone calls to the police about it, as well as the vets are against it. So it's not just her. If it was just her then yeah I would say she was a crazy loon.

But again I think you don't seem to see the point. It's got nothing to do with as you put it. An illegal war. It's about common respect for neighbor's, and community.

Two examples.

I have a friend that years ago he decided to buy a bar. He found the perfect one. The problem was before he bought the place it had fallen on hard times. Alot of bad things happened there, the the problem was that it was right next to a church. Now in this state a church, or city building has veto power over a liquor license. In other words. If that church says it stays closed then it stays closed. So he met with the minister address every concern they had and took care of it. Needless to say they let him open.

Then you've got this guy who has clearly fallen on harder times. Owes some money. Got into it with the town, lost. And instead trying again fix the problem the correct way. I mean if it's money then find some. If you can't work with the town to sell the business. It's not uncommon for a town to allow a business to open so long as it leads to it being sold, or at least guarantee a license to a new owner. But instead he throws and upside down flag which as we all know started the chain reaction. And instead of saying look I'm sorry I'm just frustrated the town he keeps it up until he's in the paper, and even then he doesn't stop. So now he's got his neighbors, the town's veterans not interested in doing business with the man, as well as the town against him even further because they put back up the flags that hang on the telephone poles in that end of the street. So the next time there's a town meeting about hiss license there will be so many people there against him he'll never be allowed to open.

I dunno. I mean I'm in business and you know a couple of years ago I added some lights to the building. Big flood lights because the building was so dark at night. A neighbor complained that the light was too bright facing their house so we tilted them downward a little bit more so the light wasn't so bright toward the surrounding homes. We didn't go and add more and aim the lights directly at their homes.