Sin Taxes

[guywithashovel]

Sin taxes are taxes placed on items deemed "unhealthy," such as tobacco, alcohol, soda, junk food, etc. Such taxes can also be imposed on non-food items such as vehicles that emit a lot of pollution.

Do these taxes do any good? Should they be imposed on certain things?

Resources:

A Brief, but interesting, Time article on sin taxes.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...889187,00.html

An article that seems to be against sin taxes (I just skimmed it, admittedly.)
http://www.american.com/archive/2009...tax-the-sinner

Another article
http://definitions.uslegal.com/s/sin-tax/

[MadMike]

I'm of two minds on this one. If something needs taxed, I'd rather it be something I don't actually need.

On the other hand, all too often these things seem to turn into a money-grab by the government.

[Flyndaran]

I want such severely unhealthy things' taxes to subsidize healthy food rather than just empty into the gov's coffers.
Cigarettes is a special case as it causes so many health problems and drain on the nation's productivity that if we can't make it illegal then we darn well should tax the living crap out of it.... again I want such monies to go toward anti-smoking programs and public health care.

[Rapscallion]

If stuff is so unhealthy, why not just ban it?

Smoking is very unlikely to be banned, ever. It kills people sooner, so the government doesn't have to shell out as much for pensions.

Actually, if they started taxing healthy things, such as gym memberships or tofu, that sort of gear might become more desireable, and thus interest in them would increase.

Humans, funny bunch.

Rapscallion

[Boozy]

If stuff is so unhealthy, why not just ban it?

Because governments in free democracies do not usually claim the right to control someone's body. If someone wants to drink or smoke themselves to death, they have that right.

However, there is a cost involved. Smokers severely tax the health care system (in countries with universal care.) Smokers need to pay for their choices, and the best way to ensure that they do is to tax their smokes.

I have never heard of carbon taxes being classified as a "sin" tax. Things that cause heavy pollution need to be taxed at a level that makes their cost commensurate with the damage they are causing the environment. It's not necessarily a measure to reduce their use, the way sin taxes are. It's not fair, for example, to ask pedestrians and Hummer drivers to pay the same amount of taxes for road maintenance and tree-planting programs. Hummers cause more damage to the air and roads, so their drivers have to pay more. That's why road improvement and carbon-capture programs are funded in large part by gas taxes.

[Mr Slugger]

If stuff is so unhealthy, why not just ban it?

Smoking is very unlikely to be banned, ever. It kills people sooner, so the government doesn't have to shell out as much for pensions.

Actually, if they started taxing healthy things, such as gym memberships or tofu, that sort of gear might become more desireable, and thus interest in them would increase.

Humans, funny bunch.

Rapscallion

Smoking will probably never be banned because I think the gov has stopped trying to ban products that already are being sold. In part because of lawsuits. Like around here we've got some going for rolling papers, and blunt wraps. They were allowed onto the market. rolling papers have been around for ever. Now that people are smoking pot with them some places are trying to ban them entirely. No the companies are suing towns because their take is if they're so bad they should have been stopped from day one, and in most cases they are selling a legit product that people turn into drugs. So their thing is you may as well stop selling drano because they make crystal meth with it, and stop selling moth balls because people crush them up and sniff them.

Plus in all honesty the gov makes way too much money off cigs just let it go.

On the other hand I like the idea if they are going to tax junk food that they push healthier food, but the gov is too stupid to figure that out.

It's like in the town one of our store's is in. They charged to pick up your trash, you could get your recycles picked up for free. That encouraged recycling, then they decided because the town needed money to charge for recycling. So now everything ends up in a dumpster.

[joe hx]

If stuff is so unhealthy, why not just ban it?

You ban something, you have to enforce that ban, which means spending money.

You tax something, you make money.

[Rapscallion]

I was being mostly rhetorical in that question

Rapscallion

[Boozy]

Well I guess you've learned your lesson, then. There is no such thing as a rhetorical question around here.

[Rapscallion]

You're right. I need spanking.

Anyway, back on track - do increased taxes stop people from doing uhealthy things?

Fuel in the UK is taxed to arseholes and beyond. Peoples' lifestyles are adjusted to fit around the ability to go far at a relatively reasonable price. Fuel taxes go up every year, yet we still get more and more cars on the road. I've yet to hear of anyone say they'll never drive again after a hike.

I've heard many people at budget time claim that this is it and they're never going to smoke again once the tax hike hits. None of the ones I've experienced have ever actually done this.

Granted, this is rather anecdotal evidence, but I think the main reason for a non-removal from lifestyle is more to do with the government making sure its tax levels allow people to continue than anything else. They're not really allowed to work.

Rapscallion

[Flyndaran]

Do laws alter people's behavior at all? We have strict laws on rape and murder, yet people keep doing them all the time.
I think laws and taxes only push someone to avoid something only if they were on the fence to begin with. Otherwise people adapt to keep doing the same ole same ole like you wrote. We are creatures of habit when at all possible.

[Rapscallion]

Do laws alter people's behavior at all?

Depends on the law. In the case of death penalty, then I think it's a no-brainer that it stops someone doing something again. As a deterrent, then I don't know - there are many arguments on both sides of that one.

A stronger law with stronger penalties isn't really a deterrent if the criminally minded can see that there's not much chance of being caught for their crimes. That needs factoring in as well.

Rapscallion

[BroomJockey]

You're right. I need spanking.

<snip>

Fuel taxes go up every year, yet we still get more and more cars on the road. I've yet to hear of anyone say they'll never drive again after a hike.

Yeah, I'm not touching that first part. Go ask DGoddess.

And I've heard people say "If gas hits X, I'm mothballing my car!" And then gas hits X+1 and they're still driving as much as ever. It's the equivalent of "I'm never shopping here again."

[Tanasi]

I remember lots or people in the 70's that said if gas gets about $1 a gallon then I'll have to park my car and start walking. Wonder what those same people have to say about things this this time last year???

Sin Taxes are nothing but attempts at social engineering by most unqualified (politicians) for their self-agrandisement.