Speed Limits

[smileyeagle1021]

A cross section (in statistics) is defined as a sample meant to be representative of a whole population. How do you figure that two highways and an island comprise a representative sample of all driving conditions?

well, you know what they say... there are lies, damned lies, and then there are statistics. So, you are correct that two highways and an island do not a decent sample make... but that doesn't change the fact that you can make a comparison between the United States and Germany... both systems were designed and built around the same time to serve the same purpose... and the German system is safer despite the lack of speed limit.

[Arcade Man D]

well, you know what they say... there are lies, damned lies, and then there are statistics. So, you are correct that two highways and an island do not a decent sample make... but that doesn't change the fact that you can make a comparison between the United States and Germany... both systems were designed and built around the same time to serve the same purpose... and the German system is safer despite the lack of speed limit.

See, that quote irks me. The reason people see statistics as flawed are half-assed attempts at statistical analysis like the one you just did. Using means when medians would better describe the average (for example, analyzing on-time rates of flights by month for the past decade). Using anecdotal evidence like the single German expressway with no speed limit to say that completely eradicating speed limits would be safe.

[HYHYBT]

I'd say we need speed limits everywhere mainly because we're so used to having them that most people haven't developed good judgement about how fast to drive. Even as it is, you know most people go the limit even when it's not really safe, and many get road-ragy if, say, I'm in front of them going slower because, say, it's an unfamiliar, winding mountain road, at night, in the rain and I don't feel like flying off it at 45MPH.

[smileyeagle1021]

See, that quote irks me.

here's another quote then you might like
"you can prove anything with statistics"
last person I heard say that was one of the authors of the statistics text book used by the Utah State Higher Education System. Even statisticians understand that statistics is imprecise and can be manipulated.

And you're right, saying German roads are safer doesn't prove that speed limits aren't necessary, but it does prove that the Germans are doing something we aren't that we should be... and apparently speed limits aren't the important factor. Anecdotal or not, we can still safely say that.

[protege]

The German autobahn is designed for high speeds--many roads in the US simply can't handle it. Also, they spend a crapload of cash keeping that system in good shape--the US simply can't (or won't) do that. Too many state agencies to deal with, all of whom farm out repair work to independent contractors...some of which with shady reputations. But now, several areas of the autobahn suffer from slowdowns. Because of the high standards required for the road, it's constantly being worked on. From what I understand, they're talking about the possibility of speed limits in some areas.

[smileyeagle1021]

From what I understand, they're talking about the possibility of speed limits in some areas.

already done. Many of the major cities have speed limits now within city limits.

[joe hx]

Somewhere I read (I think on AOL News) that if your traveling faster than 80mph and you crash, your likely to die even if you're wearing your seatbelt. Unfortunately I couldn't find the original article...

[BroomJockey]

traveling faster than 80mph and you crash, your likely to die even if you're wearing your seatbelt.

I learned in Physics class that if you're travelling too quickly around a turn, you'll lose friction and simply slide off the road, and that while most are banked to prevent that, most turns, under ideal conditions, I believe if you're going about 100-120mph you're toast.

[joe hx]

I learned in Physics class that if you're travelling too quickly around a turn, you'll lose friction and simply slide off the road, and that while most are banked to prevent that, most turns, under ideal conditions, I believe if you're going about 100-120mph you're toast.

True - but it would depend on your tires, how well your shocks are, and other factors. Funny thing about tires is that some have the normally impossible coefficient of friction that is greater than one, but I think that's only racing tires.

[smileyeagle1021]

Somewhere I read (I think on AOL News) that if your traveling faster than 80mph and you crash, your likely to die even if you're wearing your seatbelt. Unfortunately I couldn't find the original article...

then there are the people like me though where I know that while I might survive a 70mph crash, I'm not sure I'd want to... there is some validity to the argument that if your going to crash you might as well do so in a way that isn't going to cause long term suffering (talking about rural interstate here where the most common crashes are single car... I wouldn't be so selfish in an urban area where I'd be taking someone with me).

[Mr Slugger]

The German autobahn is designed for high speeds--many roads in the US simply can't handle it.

Yup try doing 150mph in some low to the ground car in this neck of the woods. The crater sized potholes might let you make it a mile before they take out a tire. I mean hell I worry about doing 80mph around here because it's almost like off roading.

Anyway I do think we need speed limits, however there's just sometimes I just have to go WTF. Like for instance there's this road I know it's a nice safe road. No schools on it, but it's got a speed limit of 20 for a good mile. You can't even step on the gas and go that fast.And there's more like major roads that have speed limits of 30. And in all honesty no one does the speed limit on these roads, but every once and a while some idiot does and it just pisses me off.

[smileyeagle1021]

And in all honesty no one does the speed limit on these roads, but every once and a while some idiot does and it just pisses me off.

Oh, that reminds me of a conversation I had with my grandma several years back. She was outraged that NDOT was raising the speed limit on a section of the McCarren loop in Reno. She was upset because NDOT was quote "raising the limit because everyone went over the old limit anyway".
I asked her when the last time was that there was a collision on that stretch of roadway... she hesitated, and admitted that she couldn't remember the last time that there was an accident on that stretch of roadway... which of course means that obviously the higher speed was safe because it was a safe stretch of road.

[BroomJockey]

(talking about rural interstate here where the most common crashes are single car... I wouldn't be so selfish in an urban area where I'd be taking someone with me).

"most common?" So you're selfish enough to play the odds on taking someone else with you then. "Eh, there's about a 75% chance I won't kill another human being, so I'm cool with that."

Yeah...

[smileyeagle1021]

"most common?" So you're selfish enough to play the odds on taking someone else with you then. "Eh, there's about a 75% chance I won't kill another human being, so I'm cool with that."

Yeah...

By most common, I mean that in 2009 there has not been a single death on rural interstate 80 (in western Utah, which is the interstate I normally drive on) that involved a mutli-car collision... every single one has either been someone falling asleep and going off the road or having a blow out and going off the road (at least as far as I'm aware... I try to keep up to date on the blotter, but I might have missed one). So make that more like a 99+% chance of not killing anyone else. To be honest, the odds are that it's more likely that I will kill someone who stumbles into the road drunk too close for me to stop/swerve (we get one or two of those a month in Salt Lake) than me taking someone out on the rural interstate out west.

[smileyeagle1021]

interesting article I found today that I thought I'd add. Utah recently upped the speed limit on two sections of roads... only change is that there is a slightly higher speed on average, slightly less speed related citations (mainly because many viewed the increased limit as coming into line with what was already safe than an invitation to speed more), and interestingly enough the rate of accidents stayed exactly the same.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13612717