Single Payer = Socialism

[Salesmonkey]

Socialism is a "frightening" word that the wingnuts keep spouting off. Because if there is "socialized medicine" there will also be "death panels", &etc.

But consider.....

National defense (Army, Navy, Airforce, Marines), is socialized. No private armies allowed.

Fire defense is socialized. Small communities that can't support it through taxes form volunteer fire departments. This is classic human social behaviour.

Law enforcement is socialized. Security companies can tell you kids to get off the lawn, but their powers of use of force and prosecution are severely limited.

Higher education is socialized. The state and national governments established and support universities, and also provide substantial scholarships and loan assistance.

Is health care as important as these things? I think so. I also think that the success of our country is dependent on our productivity. So do you really believe the people who say that maintaining the health of the working population is bad for the Republic?

[DesignFox]

It's only potentially bad for the insurance companies who are bleeding us dry with premiums and refusing to cover our expenses.

The only people I see complaining are those who already have phenomenally good coverage or who are already covered by the government through medicare.

As far as I see it, the only people who have any right to bitch are those who are not on any form of government assistance but choose to pay their own expenses out of pocket. If you take one drop of assistance from the government for any type of health care, then you have no right to complain about government spending, or make mention of the fact that medicare is going into bankruptcy. Or whatever other excuse those people have for being against health care reform.

I'm not saying that the current administration has all the answers, but from listening to what Obama had to say to Congress, it sounded like a step in the right direction.

We're not ripping it all out and starting from scratch. We aren't turning our country into a communist or socialist nation. We're finally starting to take a look at a system far past needing repair.

But, what do I know. Apparently, wanting the people of my nation to have access to healthcare makes me a commie.

[guywithashovel]

What really irks me is that they oppose this because it's supposedly "government expansion" or "big government." However, many of these people have no qualms about the government imposing religion on us (school prayer) and dictating who can and can't get married (gay marriage bans). But if there's any talk of the government providing healthcare to its citizens, then the socialism cries start.

These people don't really want "small government." They just want a powerful, intrusive government that costs them as little money in taxes as possible. I wish they would just admit that.

Personally, the more I think about it, the more I see government healthcare as simply a government protecting its citizens. But apparently, here in the US, that makes me a far left socialist. And we could very easily afford it if we just cut out the fat that's currently in our budget (like bailing out negligent corporations, all the pet projects that lawmakers sneak into bills, bridges to nowhere, etc.). But even if it wouldn't be best for us, we definitely need an affordable option that isn't attached to employers.

(For the record, I took the political compass test, and it placed me right on the middle line of the political spectrum, strongly in the libertarian area.)

Also, for those of you who live in countries with government-run healthcare, have any of you ever experienced any of the horror stories that we hear about here in the states? (e.g. extra long waiting times, rationing, pulling the plug on Grandma)

[Fashion Lad!]

A single payer system would be socialized health care. It would not turn the entire country into a socialized state.

[Arcade Man D]

Also, for those of you who live in countries with government-run healthcare, have any of you ever experienced any of the horror stories that we hear about here in the states? (e.g. extra long waiting times, rationing, pulling the plug on Grandma)

From everything I've asked a friend who was born and raised in Germany? Nothing.

What I have heard was that a newborn baby who had very slim chances to live due to severe ALS (Lou Gherig's Disease, which cut his life short at 40), and didn't have a rich family, was so well taken care of by the British NHS that he is still alive today, at the age of 67. You may know who I'm talking about.

[daleduke17]

Will everyone who is fawning all over the British, Canadian and German systems listen to this simple phrase to why a lot of people don't want Government run health care in the USA:

The US Government will screw it up worse than the current system. Look how the US Government runs other programs. Do you want that style of management in charge of healthcare?

[Pedersen]

The US Government will screw it up worse than the current system. Look how the US Government runs other programs. Do you want that style of management in charge of healthcare?

Another site I browse too much had an interesting pic on it of a post made still elsewhere.

Personally, I found this picture to quite interesting, and made me actually think about it. Still not sure where I stand overall, but the prospect of government run healthcare isn't quite so frightening thanks to that.

[Gravekeeper]

Another site I browse too much had an interesting pic on it of a post made still elsewhere.

Hah, that's about right.

Its the Socialism = Hitler shit that irks me. Socialism is vastly different from Hitler's National Socialism.

[Arcade Man D]

Will everyone who is fawning all over the British, Canadian and German systems listen to this simple phrase to why a lot of people don't want Government run health care in the USA:

The US Government will screw it up worse than the current system. Look how the US Government runs other programs. Do you want that style of management in charge of healthcare?

They can't do any worse than the current system.

[lordlundar]

The really stupid part about all of the crying of the doom and gloom that's going on is that the shit that they're saying is going to happen under Obama's plan is shit that is proven to be ACTUALLY HAPPENING RIGHT NOW!

If the panic of "insane wait times for emergencies" was happening here in Canada, I would not be here because I'd have been dead about 7 years ago from my appendicitis.

[Fashion Lad!]

They can't do any worse than the current system.

Yes, they can. I bring to you Massachusetts (literally, on a plate) where they have already enacted many of the reform plans that are going through congress right now.

No insane wait times, right?

While the have more physicians per population than any other state, they have the longest wait times than any other state.

But, their health care is cheaper, right?

Massachusetts has the highest insurance premiums than any other state. Their prices went up higher than the average state.

Cost of living differences?

L.A has a 22% increase in cost of living differences over Boston, but still has more expensive insurance premiums.

The government's track record thus far with managing our tax dollars has been pathetic at best. Now, we've got a spend and "we're working on the details of who we're going to tax and how much" government. They're going to spend more because they know they can just raise taxes in order to pay for it all.

The problem is, at what point do they stop? When have you been able to go up to your boss and say "you know what? I have all these new expenses that I need to pay for. I need you to raise my salary up about 5%." Unless you're a super great worker and it's a review time, I wouldn't count on that happening. I want the government to reduce spending, fix the programs that are in place already and make sure they're not running a deficit each year before introducing something completely different. Especially something as large as health care reform that they say won't lead to a single payer plan, but others say "this isn't the Trojan horse for universal health care, it's right there." What would be so wrong about the spending a couple years on health care reform to make sure it's done right?

[DesignFox]

Obama stated in his speech that the program wasn't going to be implemented for at least 4 years. It isn't happening overnight.

I'm as scared as everyone else, but I guess since I've really got nothing to lose (shit healthcare), and possibly everything to gain, I'm willing to talk about this.

[daleduke17]

Why is everyone saying "Canada's system is so great"? I get it. Canada supposedly has some amazing healthcare system.

WE'RE NOT CANADA.

Our government is inept compared to Canada. Yes, the government already oversees a lot of shit in the US. But, remember (looking at the picture shown earlier):
- Water companies: a lot are privately owned (yeah, where I live it is ran by the joint townships - I'm lucky not to be on a well).
- No one HAS to have internet (contrary to popular belief).
- NOAA/NASA/NWS don't regulate things like other government agencies. They tell us it's gonna rain or, holy shit, there's planets other than our own.
- people do not have to use the "legal tender". It is just easier to use in public (instead of the traditional bartering concept).

SOME government intervention is needed in daily life. I'll agree. I just don't want their intervention in health care. Look how bad the public schools are. Ran by the same government. The results are way too low for the costs. BUT, if you decide to send your kid to private school, you still have to pay for public school via taxes.

[Rapscallion]

Our government is inept compared to Canada.

Maybe, just maybe, you should vote in some competent candidates? If the US election pool and that for its civil servants is so shallow, you could go down the route of some sort of entrance exam?

If the politicos are the problem, elect better ones!

Rapscallion

[daleduke17]

Maybe, just maybe, you should vote in some competent candidates? If the US election pool and that for its civil servants is so shallow, you could go down the route of some sort of entrance exam?

If the politicos are the problem, elect better ones!

Rapscallion

The inept keep getting voted in because all people see are the "-R" or "-D" behind the name on the local news. Or, only certain people (Obama and McCain recently) get shown so much on the national news that they are the ones who are made into the only names people know. Tell the media to actually show ALL candidates fairly, then there may be some better people to elect.

The media played a huge role in the last few elections. Look at 2008. Obama was shown in a positive light only, while McCain was shown in a completely negative light. There was nothing negative on Obama. Anyone who was against Obama was shown as some sort of nutcase or racist. Look how the third parties are shown as well in any form of media. Only the candidates that are the "chosen" are the ones who get any shot at votes. The US election system is about as scripted as the WWE.