Have Americans finally woken up and smelled the coffee?

[Fashion Lad!]

I did not vote for Obama. You all know that. I do not approve of a majority of what he's done thus far. I did not vote for Al Franken, I voted for Norm Coleman, but I generally approve of how Al Franken is handling his seat in the Senate. At this point in the game it's Obama's economy and I disapprove with the current amount he's spent and what he's proposing to spend. I find that to be a legitimate reason to not like him. Argue with me all you want, but I do not like "tax and spend" nor do I like "borrow and spend" economics.

I do think a lot of Americans are starting to say, "wow, he spoke really well... but... that's gotten us nowhere fast." And it's only going to continue until there is a noticeable growth in the economy. But, no one is going to change their vote because life hasn't been "horrible" with the current guy.

[BroomJockey]

I feel like people are just going to use this to attack Obama when in reality, it's about congress.

At this point in the game it's Obama's economy and I disapprove with the current amount he's spent and what he's proposing to spend. I find that to be a legitimate reason to not like him.

Green called it. Yes, he did.

[Mytical]

Money, via special interest pretty much controls the government. Yeah, I will probably be labelled a conspiracy nut, but meh..ask me if I care about what people think of me . What I am going to propose will sound absolutely ridiculous, then I will explain why, and why it will never happen.

You REALLY want the economy fixed? I mean...really and truely?? Here is how in some really easy steps.

Cut back on aid to forein countries, including troops. Would save us billions. Also because most people think we stick our noses where it don't belong, give em something else to complain about. Like that we are greedy and uncaring about the rest of the worlds problems (We have enough of our own, really). Won't happen because we are boned either way. One way because we are greedy capitalist just trying to use/abuse other nations, the other because we are greedy americans that don't care about anybody else. Yay catch 22.

Legalize Prostitution and Marijuana and tax it. Take the money out of the 'illegal' orginizations pockets and put it into the governments. Cut down on prison costs, overcrowding, and give the government some extra revenue. Won't happen because somebody is making too much money, and they will pay enough that it will never pass into law. Yeah both are bad for you, but so is smoking, drinking, breathing (you know how many pollutants are in the air?!) and generally living.

Through lobbyist out the door, put armed guards with orders to shoot to kill blocking their way back. Monitor all governement employees (especially senate, house, president etc) activity 24/7. That way no bribery (its a start).
Let anybody who has a problem with the monitoring resign, new people have to sign a contract agreeing to the monitoring if they become a government official before they can even run for the office.

Give tax breaks to companies that create/keep new jobs in the US. A small ammount when creating, and a slightly bigger ammount when a new job has been around for a year (ie they downsize at all during the year, they don't get the second bonus).

Stop this blasted 'golden parachute' nonsense. Let them fail. New, stronger businesses will take their place. Sure things will be worse for awhile, but then it will be MUCH better in the end. Especially because of all these bonuses the companies recieving the money are giving OUT!

Bah enough ranting..we return you to your regularly scheduled program. Pay no attention to the guy behind the curtain with the straightjacket on.

[joe hx]

Monitor all governement employees

ah but who will monitor the monitors? (computers?)

[Fashion Lad!]

Green called it. Yes, he did.

Hmm... I guess the President is just too much of a chicken shit to veto then. And when a President proposes a $10 trillion dollar budget deficit for the next 8 years, that's on his ass.

[Greenday]

Hmm... I guess the President is just too much of a chicken shit to veto then.

Which Congress can just overturn.

[Fashion Lad!]

Which Congress can just overturn.

I know that.

However, if Obama doesn't even try, he likes it, he is then responsible for it. I can see not blaming him if he goes, "Oh, I don't like this bill, let me Veto it" but he doesn't even do that. Even if he did veto it and Congress decided they wanted to overturn the veto, they need 2/3rds majority from both senate and house. So no, spending is on him if he doesn't even try to curb it from Congress.

[BroomJockey]

Fashion Lad, do you have any idea about real world politics? Like, not ideologies, mechanics, and such, but how actual politicians operate? Because to veto something is not something done lightly. Think about it. He vetoes anything that congress really wanted through, he's going to have a damned hard time working with them for the next three years, because they'll have a grudge over it. And heaven forfend they actually manage to overturn his veto. Instant figurehead. He'd have dick-all legitimacy. A lack of a veto doesn't mean he even likes something, it just means he's smart enough to weigh the consequences of throwing away any good will with congress vs. the benefits of something not passing. If it was the last half of his term, or at any point in his second term, you might have a point, but political reality says you're blowing smoke.

[Fashion Lad!]

Fashion Lad, do you have any idea about real world politics?

Yeah, I know real-world politics. Let's push an agenda, fuck the American people. Is it going to get me re-elected? Yes. Let's do this already.

I know a veto is not something to be taken lightly. But when I fucking complain about spending and someone goes, "you're blaming Obama for something that Congress did" than I'm going to get even more pissed because I'm mad that Obama did not STOP fucking spending. I know they have to work together. But the pork-barrel project that was pushed through shortly after Obama was sworn into office was a bunch of utter bull-shit. He could have line-item vetoed some of the stupid wasteful bull-shit spending in there, but he didn't. Don't fucking ask me if I understand how this shit works, because I have a pretty clear idea that we're all fucked.

[BroomJockey]

Presidents don't have line-item veto power. Just 43 governors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line-item_veto

[Fashion Lad!]

Presidents don't have line-item veto power. Just 43 governors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line-item_veto

Then maybe it's time for Obama to be a man and really nip wasteful spending in the bud.

[Nyoibo]

10 trillion over 8 years isn't that bad really for the US, considering that DoD spending alone is over $650 billion and non-DoD defense related spending bumps that up to anywhere between $900 billion and $1.1 trillion.

Now what that 10trillion is then spent on however is where it will show if Obama and his people know what they're doing.

[Fashion Lad!]

10 trillion over 8 years isn't that bad really for the US, considering that DoD spending alone is over $650 billion and non-DoD defense related spending bumps that up to anywhere between $900 billion and $1.1 trillion.

Now what that 10trillion is then spent on however is where it will show if Obama and his people know what they're doing.

You've obviously missed the part where I said deficit spending. Bush added roughly $2.5 trillion over his 8 years. So, I think the $10 trillion Obama has slated for us is pretty significant.

[Depot Denizen]

Then write to your Congressmen and women and tell them not to vote on the spending bill. Yeah, if I ran the zoo I'd try and do things differently.

It's not "Obama VS Congress". Nothing would get done if he veto'd everything from Congress. Eventually they would rally and push things through anyway and Obama would have no authority. No one would listen to him.

Everyone's got to play nice. I don't think Congress is doing quite the right thing, but you know what? I can't think of anything better to try.

It has nothing to do with Obama "being a man" and all of this other macho bullshit. Veto is a serious affair and should not be taken lightly. If you don't like what Congress is doing, use your voice. Call up your Reps and Senators, or vote new ones in.

[Fashion Lad!]

No, it is about manning up. How many times did he say, "I will not sign a bill with pork-barrel projects"? (Not verbatim, of course). And what's one of the first things he does as President. He could've gone back to Congress and said, "I'm vetoing this until you clean it up." But he never did. The stimulus bill contained about 9,000 pork projects. It's not like it was a couple here and there... 9,000!

President Obama is Bush Jr round 2. So, if people all of a sudden think things are going great or are getting better, I think that has little to do with the actual situation or the actual situation that is likely to occur after the Obama Economy plays out fully and more to do with who is President.

And yes, I agree that the President and Congress need to work together. But also, the President needs to be firm and say, "that isn't going to fly, Americans can't afford it."

When Clinton was president, the Republican Majority Congress fought to give Clinton the line-item veto. He had it for about 4 years before it was declared unconstitutional. (I think it needs to come back with some checks and balances.) When he was given that power to stop a lot of those pork projects, our economy started to balance out.