Have Americans finally woken up and smelled the coffee?

[Fashion Lad!]

GDP does not prove economic health.

You have not proven that the EU economy is stronger/healthier than the American economy.

[BroomJockey]

GDP does not prove economic health.

Err, yes it does. A higher GDP means it's a larger economy, since Boozy's original post said that the EU was the largest in the world, and it has the largest GDP, that proves her correct. I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but clearly you're lacking even the theoretical knowledge on this one.

[Boozy]

GDP does not prove economic health.

Economic health? That wasn't what we were discussing.

All I said was that the US economy had been overtaken by the EU. I didn't say "larger", but I figured it would be inferred given the topic at hand. I should have be more clear.

My point stands. While GDP may not be the primary indicator of economic health (although it's a very good one), it is most definitely the primary indicator of economic power, which is what we were discussing. The largest market in the world now belongs to the EU. It is where foreign investors have turned their eye, and it gives them more clout in negotiations.

[Fashion Lad!]

Err, yes it does. A higher GDP means it's a larger economy, since Boozy's original post said that the EU was the largest in the world, and it has the largest GDP, that proves her correct. I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but clearly you're lacking even the theoretical knowledge on this one.

I'll say this again. Larger GDP does not mean better economic health. If your GDP is growing at 1.5% and your population is growing at 3%, you're actually becoming poorer, but still larger.

EU which is primarily carried by Germany (a single country, like the United States). But when it comes to a country's GDP, the United States has the largest GDP. Europe is an entire continent. But fine the EU does have a larger GDP than the US. If we look at single countries, the U.S. has by far the largest economy.

[BroomJockey]

I'll say this again. Larger GDP does not mean better economic health.

You're the only one talking about "Health" of economies, and the European Union has to be considered as an entirety now. You cannot just break it down to countries anymore since they're now rather intertwined, and moreso, by economists, are considered as a single unit. So, yes, the EU's economy is larger. Please continue to stay on the same topic as everyone else. Redefining the conversation to make yourself correct is not conducive to debating.

[Rapscallion]

Where do you get the information that the U.S. economy has been overtaken by the European economy? Don't base it off of exchange rates. The economic powerhouse of the world, China, has a weak currency. The Euro has been rising against the Renminbi. But still, China is the economic powerhouse.

I decided to challenge you. You brought it up as supporting evidence to another person's argument. Common knowledge? No. I searched high and low for something that pointed to the EU economy actually being stronger than the US economy. I didn't see it.

Yes, two challenges to showing that the EU economy has overtaken the US's economy, along with a challenge not to use exchange rates.

Try this.

For some reason, that link wasn't pasting right for me - was missing the last parenthesis. I suspect that's what happened for Broom as well.

Rapscallion

There it goes - the post I made to show Broom's link showing the actual GDP of the various economic reasons.

Your response?

GDP does not prove economic health.

You have not proven that the EU economy is stronger/healthier than the American economy.

Whoa - someone finds some evidence that you admitted you couldn't find, and then that's not economic health.

Let's hear it. What measure do you think is acceptable for economic health? Can't keep moving the goalposts.

EU which is primarily carried by Germany (a single country, like the United States). But when it comes to a country's GDP, the United States has the largest GDP. Europe is an entire continent. But fine the EU does have a larger GDP than the US. If we look at single countries, the U.S. has by far the largest economy.

By the way, if you're breaking up the EU into separate countries, I suggest you do the same for the US. It's fifty soveriegn states under a federal government, as far as I understand it, and there is the possibility that one day one of your states could secede. Sounds like a very similar situation to the EU.

Raspcallion

[Rapscallion]

Side note - from that Wikipedia article, I notice that the only part where the US is reckoned to have a larger economy is the one where the 'eurozone' is second ranked. The Eurozone is a section of the EU that has joined in the Euro (a currency that sounds remarkably like someone being violently ill), but that's not even close to all the states in the EU.

Quite frankly I have no real opinion or stake on all of this. I'd like to see debating on one topic and unmoved goalposts.

Rapscallion

[BroomJockey]

there is the possibility that one day one of your states could secede.
Raspcallion

Oops, shouldn't have brought that up. Technically, that's "impossible" under the US's laws. Once it's joined, you're in forever. Though if a state decides that it doesn't want to be under the laws of the US anymore, I don't see why it being "not allowed" would stop them...

[Rapscallion]

Never going to happen is pretty much the state of play with the EU and the European Central Banking system. Gets so intertwined that there's no way out, and more on that is going into another thread entirely.

Rapscallion

[AdminAssistant]

Though if a state decides that it doesn't want to be under the laws of the US anymore, I don't see why it being "not allowed" would stop them...

Well, that didn't work out too well back in the 1860's, so.....

I don't know as much about the details of our governments as I should, but there are certain things that the states handle and some things that are handled at the federal level. However, since all 50 states use the same currency and since interstate commerce is so common, I think it's fair to lump all of the US together. Ditto the European Union.

And, of course, the EU is doing better than we are financially. The only reason that the US was the world's superpower was because we came out of WW II with our infrastructure intact. Now, Europe (incl. Britain), China, Japan, well they've caught up. We're all actually *gasp* equal! The US isn't in charge anymore, oh noes!!!

American, the country and its people, must realize that we are playing on a global stage and we have to play nice and share. We're no longer sitting on an upper pedestal over everyone else. This is not a bad thing, it's just the reality of the situation.

Oops! Gotta run, but more on this later.

[Boozy]

But fine the EU does have a larger GDP than the US. If we look at single countries, the U.S. has by far the largest economy.

As far as international geopolitics go, there is no longer any sense in discussing individual economies within the EU, just as it makes no sense to discuss individual states within the US. The European Union uses a single currency on the world stage, has one central bank, and negotiates trade agreements with other countries as a single entity.

[Boozy]

Let's hear it. What measure do you think is acceptable for economic health?

I actually agree with FashionLad that GDP is not the primary indicator of economic health. Health is generally measured by a combination of GDP/capita and GDP growth.

Which is why I'm still confused as to why economic "health" was brought up at all. This whole thing kicked off when I responded to idrinkarum's post about the US being seen as weak. And GDP is clearly an important indicator of economic power. That is the only point I was addressing.

[Fashion Lad!]

By the way, if you're breaking up the EU into separate countries, I suggest you do the same for the US. It's fifty soveriegn states under a federal government, as far as I understand it, and there is the possibility that one day one of your states could secede. Sounds like a very similar situation to the EU.

Raspcallion

No, it does not. We could throw Canada and Mexico into the Dollar system and go by the continent rather the individual country. Germany has its own individual states like the U.S. does.

For the U.S.

Minnesota, Wisconsin, Idaho... I could go on

For Germany

Berlin, Hamburg, Hesse... I could go on.

And if you go by PURE country, the United States has the largest GDP.

[Arcade Man D]

I'll say this again. Larger GDP does not mean better economic health. If your GDP is growing at 1.5% and your population is growing at 3%, you're actually becoming poorer, but still larger.

How about we go by what you implied is a good measure of economic health with that post, say, GDP per capita?

In that list the US doesn't break 12.

Hell, according to the CIA WORLD FACTBOOK, the US is 17th for per capita GDP. What was that about the US being on top for economic health?

[Fashion Lad!]

What was that about the US being on top for economic health?

Where did I say that????