How Obama's Public Option is going to screw the young people of America

[Fashion Lad!]

What I want to know is, what exactly will be done to add capable doctors, nurses, techs, etc into the workforce so that patients can be seen in a timely manner?

They're not making it any easier to get into med school, you know... (easier financially, I should add). You'd think they'd focus some of that money into scholarships for would-be health care workers.

JAM! I've missed you and you never respond to my texts! (All two of them)

And I absolutely agree. We need more doctors and nurses and there needs to be policies in place so more people can become doctors and nurses. Don't lower standards, help with the cost of tuition.

[BroomJockey]

help with the cost of tuition.

Oh god yes! The cost of a Bachelor's degree in the US astonishes me. Going all the way for an M.D. is even worse!

Not to harp on anything, but hell, buy one less bomber, fund, what, a dozen med scholarships? Two dozen, if it was a high-end bomber? I dunno the numbers, but with spending on everything the way it is there, especially now, you can't tell me there's no where to trim and shift.

By's the by, but I've recently discovered that medical doctors are trained pretty differently in Canada than the US. Kinda bizarre. Turns out, the M.D. is a 4 year undergrad degree, then you go straight to residency, 2 years for general practitioner, 5 for surgery, etc etc. Not at all like Pre-Med, Med, intern, residency, etc.

[AdminAssistant]

Not to harp on anything, but hell, buy one less bomber, fund, what, a dozen med scholarships? Two dozen, if it was a high-end bomber? I dunno the numbers, but with spending on everything the way it is there, especially now, you can't tell me there's no where to trim and shift.

Hell, you could start slashing the pay of the athletics staff at any university and save millions. Or just eliminate all of the secondary assistants to the assistant coaches. (Hell, how many coaches does one team need anyway?) That's money that could be used for scholarships and quality faculty.

[Slytovhand]

At my work, they provide insurance. You pay a bit out of your paycheck and it covers you. Maybe every place of employment should offer something like that.

I'm sure you were only using this as an example, but many many many people don't work who also need 'insurance'.

('insurance' meaning - why the hell doesn't your government ensure you have adequate health cover in the first place, the tight-arse bastards! GDP and economic health has been discussed in this thread, and many of those countries at the top have universal health care... what's that say about 'it will destroy our economy' argument??)

[Fashion Lad!]

Hell, you could start slashing the pay of the athletics staff at any university and save millions. Or just eliminate all of the secondary assistants to the assistant coaches. (Hell, how many coaches does one team need anyway?) That's money that could be used for scholarships and quality faculty.

I don't think so. A good team, like the Tar Heels basketball program will bring in millions to the school. Just to throw this out there, the same can not be said for an art program. (I have nothing against the arts and I do believe the arts are very valuable, but this is for arguments sake.)

[Boozy]

I agree with FashionLad. I know, I know -- the apocalypse must be upon us.

Cutting the sports programs doesn't usually result in positive fiscal results for most colleges (although I'm sure there's some fat to be trimmed).

This is coming from someone who hates most sports.

Edited to add: The school I attended had a football program that no one cared about except the 20 guys on the team. We had a referendum asking the students if they'd be willing to add a mere $1 to their next semester's tuition to save the football team. 98% of students voted NO. We'd all rather buy one small cup of coffee than have a football team.

That story has nothing to do with anything, I just thought it was funny. The craziest part is that the football referendum had a higher turnout than the election for student body president. We were apathetic when it came to everything but keeping that goddamn dollar.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

I find it fascinating listening to the health care debates because as a Canadian now living in the U.S., I have experience with a Universal health system.

I'd like to hit on a few points.

1. I REALLY hate to defend insurance companies, but it should be noted these companies do NOT exist to make people healthy or keep people healthy, they exist to make money, just like any other company. In this country health care is a business and business is centered on maximizing profits.

2. The initial post mentioned that folks would be less inclined to keep working if they had government mandated insurance. I haven't seen this phenomenon in Canada. It should be noted the Canadian system does NOT cover the cost of prescriptions, only offers limited vision care and no dental care. Supplemental insurance is used to cover these things and that often comes by means of employment.

3. The Canadian system is not perfect. There are problems with it, it is abused by certain folks who, since it doesn't cost anything (out of pocket), visit a doctor or ER far more than they would otherwise. But it's been there when I needed it. The one time I have needed truly urgent care for chest pains, I was triaged quickly and seeing a doctor within 20 minutes. By the end of the night I had been put through several tests, given an X-ray and eventually cleared (the chest pains were cause by a muscle spasm, not a cardiac issue) and at the time I had no insurance through work or anything so it was such a blessing to not have to pay. I can hardly think how much debt I would be saddled with in similar circumstances in the U.S.

4. The house vote was 220-215, that's about as far from a unanimous vote as you can get. This is a very divisive issue and if there were ever a time for a national refrendum this is it. This bill is so impacting, so far reaching, that I think it would be fair to let every single American vote on whether or not to accept it, then we'll get a true picture of how much support it does or doesn't have.

[AdminAssistant]

I don't think so. A good team, like the Tar Heels basketball program will bring in millions to the school.

Yes, in the handful of schools with good teams. I go to a college with a nationally known basketball team, and quite frankly it's a pain in the ass more than anything. (As I prep to leave for rehearsal 30 minutes early because there's a home game tonight, traffic's going to be a bitch, and I have to park in the freakin' boonies.)

However, the majority of schools are like my undergrad, with either terrible or only moderately successful teams. And the coaches still make more than anybody else in the college, including the Chancellor. That, to me, is wrong. I'm not saying eliminate sports, but a serious review of salary needs to take place.

[Fashion Lad!]

I agree with FashionLad. I know, I know -- the apocalypse must be upon us.

Must be.

My biggest concern with health care reform right now seems that it could dig America into a hole that could mean problems to our entire financial system. Not quite 11 months into Obama's presidency and we have H.R. 3962 that is moving forward.

I would think that something that is 1/6th our GDP that our law-makers would spend a lot of time on. CBO estimates it's going to cost over $1 trillion in for 10 years. I can't imagine the price tag if the U.S. dollar plummets even more in value.

All debt needs to be paid. When payments on the national debt exceed any tax revenue, I think Americans will be in a lot more hurt than they are in now. I will seriously consider Canada or Australia. Apparently some parts of each are in need of IT workers. I'm going to be Boozy's neighbor. (KIDDING!)

Medicare and Medicaid are two programs that are not deficit neutral. Each are running a deficit. Our law-makers really should have spent a significant amount of time in finding any inefficiencies that they can find and eliminate them.

I can't help but think that this is nothing more than to get re-elected. 2013 is the projected start-day for H.R. 3962 to be in full effect. 2012 is when American's will decide if Obama stays president or if he gets another term. 2010 is the mid-term elections and Democrats could lose the power they currently have and not be able to pass a massive change in our current Health Care Program.

I am just as concerned about the future as I am the present. But right now, the future is looking bad. At least fiscally for American and that needs to be addressed now. I don't think that's happening. And with H.R. 3962, I definitely believe our economy was put on the back-burner, again.

[JuniorMintz]

JAM! I've missed you and you never respond to my texts! (All two of them)

Pff! I burped at you the other day and you didn't even say "bless you". I'm the one that should be hurt!

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[BroomJockey]

Medicare and Medicaid are two programs that are not deficit neutral. Each are running a deficit. Our law-makers really should have spent a significant amount of time in finding any inefficiencies that they can find and eliminate them.

Too many old people, with more getting older. Logan's Run the sunsabitches. (kidding! Mainly referencing my future law thread)

[Kimmik]

I know after Abby is born I am filing for bankruptcy... Shayne's bills alone for the 2 weeks and 4 days he lived were close to the 180k mark.. Just talking to the doctor was more then my months rent. And we didnt go for any hail mary treatments... Hell having a nurse help us to a private room so we could hold him alone as he passed... my god the fees...

I do not see why we can not have universal coverage... why the working poor have to decide if they are going to eat or by meds... with my complications one of the antibiotics I needed was several hundred dollars... for 7 pills... thankfully my doctor raided her supply of trials so that I could get the medicine I needed to save my life.

[linguist]

I know after Abby is born I am filing for bankruptcy... Shayne's bills alone for the 2 weeks and 4 days he lived were close to the 180k mark.. Just talking to the doctor was more then my months rent. And we didnt go for any hail mary treatments... Hell having a nurse help us to a private room so we could hold him alone as he passed... my god the fees...
.

i know your pain...a few months back i was hospitalized due to a birth defect in my lungs that took 31 years to manifest. the doctor said it could have happened at any time. if it had happened 3 years ago, when i didn't have a job that supplied insurance and i couldn't afford my own, it would have bankrupted me. my total bills for a 10-day hospital stay, emergency room fees, and fees for multiple surgeries during my stay totaled close to $275k. i would have spent probably most of the rest of my life trying to pay that off.

[muses_nightmare]

You know, I don't get the opposition to public healthcare in the US. I mean I kind of understand due to financial concerns and such, but really, it's something that should exist everywhere. I can't imagine having to pay the doctor for each visit, having to pay thousands for something to save my life, that would just be wrong.

Also, through fair pharmacare if you earn under a certain amount a lot of prescriptions are covered, which is a blessing because one of my boyfriend's prescriptions is over $400 for 2-3 months, and the other medication that he could end up on is something like $1000 a ml, and he'd need 5. Though prescription costs are really an issue with the drug companies, and that's a whole other can of beans.

And out of curosity, I've heard the X-ray tech program in the states is way different from the one here (in Canada, if you couldn't tell), the one here is 2.5 years long, with 1 month, 3 month and 10 month practicums throughout the course. I've heard in the states it's much shorter, just curious as to whether that's true or not?

[Amina516]

Felt this was appropriate:

http://img.timeinc.net/time/cartoons...artoons_01.jpg