Pledge of allegiance

[MergedLoki]

Not sure if this is the correct place so Mods move if appropiate.

But just a discussion I was having with an American friend (I'm from the great frozen tundra of Canada :P).

The long and short of it is... Why have a pledge of allegiance?

I mean people argue about the 'under god' etc. portion of it. 'oh it's because the founding fathers were christian and i'ts a christian nation' blah blah blah.

But Why have the pledge at all? I mean... Why bother with it? Why have to swear yourself to a government? I mean ok you're an American if you're born in the usa right?
Well no.. You're a guy, or a girl, or a person. You're no more an American than an aunt or an uncle. It's just some word that got made up and applied to you and yea ok you happened to be there.

Also, if you're gonna nit pick @ the pledge... Why worry about 'under god' worry about the 'with liberty and justice for all' I mean.. think about who says this EVERY DAY... Kids. children. the people with the LEAST liberty in all the damn country.
I mean the dictionary definition of liberty is: freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.

So who has less freedom than those under 18? There's a reason teenagers are such asshole (and yes I was one of those assholes a few years ago). It's because they're bored outta they're skulls. They can't DO anything. (well, not legally) They can't drive... they can't vote, they can't drink, they can't smoke, they can't fuck... so they go out and key cars and spraypaint an overpass at 3am on a friday night because they're BORED and pissed off about being so bored.

At least toss a disclaimer on @ the end of the pledge. 'with liberty and justice for all'..... Must be over 18, void where prohibited, offer not available in all states.

and just so you guys dont go thinkign im bashing every damn american (i'm not) or the usa in general (again i'm not) I dont agree with the canadian gov't having every schoolkid here have to sing the national anthem daily for 12 straight years either. :P

[jackfaire]

See when I was a kid I realized that in all honesty you did have rights and freedoms. The key was most of the adults in your life had to convince you that you didn't.

I stopped saying the pledge of the allegiance when I realized this and they could never say squawk.

[Amina516]

Official versions (changes in bold)
1892
“I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all.”
1892 to 1923
"I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."
1923 to 1924
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States and to the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."
1924 to 1954
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands; one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."
1954 to Present
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands: one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.


I personally think its just one of those things that are falling by the way side. My sons school does not require him, as it required me to stand and pledge. Its a sign of pride i guess you could say? Something that symbolizes patriotism and a belief in your country and etc. Nothing extremely different from customs youd find in another country.

[Kheldarson]

Because unlike some other nations, we have a system which allows you to become a full citizen period. You don't just have to be born here or have parents who were born here as well, you can just ask to join. But the final thing you have to do is swear allegiance. You have to be loyal to the country. Hence why we're one of the few nations to not allow dual citizenship as well. You're either American...or not. Your allegiance is here...or not.

[fireheart17]

From memory....the Australian requirements for citizenship are as follows:

-Need to have lived in the country for 4 years lawfully, with an additional 12 months as a permanent resident. (the difference between the two is in any benefits they're entitled to) Those four years need to be consecutive.
-Have not left the country for more than 12 months, including 3 months prior to applying.
-Understand the priveliages and responsibilities.
-Be able to speak basic English.
-Understand the nature of the application.
-intend to live or have a close neighbouring relationship with Australia.
-pass a citizenship test.

Exemptions apply for those 60 years and older, as well as former Australian citizens (who were required to give up their citizenship for one reason or another) or children of Australian citizens.

[Nyoibo]

Hence why we're one of the few nations to not allow dual citizenship as well. You're either American...or not. Your allegiance is here...or not.

Um, yes the US does allow dual citizenship, it even allows triple citizenship.

[linguist]

Um, yes the US does allow dual citizenship, it even allows triple citizenship.

it does, in cases where citizenship is granted automatically (child of u.s. citizens born in a foreign country, marriage to a foreign citizen (where marriage automatically grants citizenship), etc.), but if a u.s. citizen voluntarily applies for foreign citizenship, they lose citizenship here. details are on the u.s. state department website here.

[jackfaire]

it does, in cases where citizenship is granted automatically (child of u.s. citizens born in a foreign country, marriage to a foreign citizen (where marriage automatically grants citizenship), etc.), but if a u.s. citizen voluntarily applies for foreign citizenship, they lose citizenship here. details are on the u.s. state department website here.

Uhm no they don't according to the link you posted they may lose it May does not mean will.

In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

If they have no intention of giving up their citizenship in the US and show no indication of doing so then they cannot lose their US Citizenship as the link states the law does not have a stance on dual citizenship.

[linguist]

Uhm no they don't according to the link you posted they may lose it May does not mean will.

you're right; i should have been more clear.

If they have no intention of giving up their citizenship in the US and show no indication of doing so then they cannot lose their US Citizenship as the link states the law does not have a stance on dual citizenship.

depends on the country; some require renunciation of prior citizenship to be granted new citizenship. also, if one applies for citizenship with a country in conflict with the u.s., or joins a foreign army and takes up arms against the u.s., citizenship can (and most likely will be) stripped.

[Kheldarson]

And actually, even military kids born on foreign soil are usually asked to declare citizenship when they come of age. So, they're dual citizens until age 18 at which point they're asked to declare which country they're from.

[radiocerk]

The thing I never understood is why the citizens are pledging allegiance to the country at all. We are a republic (not a democracy) and a government of the people, for the people, etc. Why isn't the government pledging allegiance to us? I stopped doing anything more than standing in respect at 8 or so, when I realized how screwy a concept it was.

[guywithashovel]

I went to two elementary schools, and I remember saying the pledge at both of them. When I was in fourth grade, our teacher had us stand every morning and say the pledge AND sing "My Country Tis of Thee." I remember one day a boy in class did something during either the saying of the pledge or singing of the song. I can't remember what he did, but I think it was something goofy and class clown-ish. The teacher got really mad and tore into him for "disrespecting the flag, our country, our freedom, and the people in the military who defend our freedom." Now, don't get me wrong, the boy shouldn't have been goofing off during class, and the teacher wasn't wrong for correcting him. But I think it was a bit much to say that he was disrespecting our country, our freedoms, and our military. His antics didn't impede my freedom one bit, and our military wasn't affected, either. On top of that, the teacher also turned to a girl in our class whose mother was in the military and said, "'Anna,' how do you feel about 'John' disrespecting our flag and our country when your mother serves our nation every day? Does it make you feel bad?"

Way to pit classmates against each other.

[Nyoibo]

I seem to remember getting shit from a teacher in class once in the US about something similar, my response was something like "It's not my flag, country, freedom or military"

[guywithashovel]

When you stop and think about it, there is astonishing irony in scolding someone on such grounds. How much freedom do I really have if someone is going to chastise me for not reciting a pledge of allegiance or for not being patriotic in the same manner that they are?

[jackfaire]

"'Anna,' how do you feel about 'John' disrespecting our flag and our country when your mother serves our nation every day? Does it make you feel bad?":

Would love if Anna's response was, "Well Ms teacher it does make me feel bad that my mom fights to give us all freedom and your trying to take Johnny's away"