Bill Cosby tells it like it is.

[Titi]

We cannot blame the white people any longer.

http://pufone.org/blog/bill-cosbys-rant/

[Seshat]

I think it's a very complex problem, but Cosby's right in that it's a self-perpetuating problem.

If it's more important to a child and/or parents that the child 'fit in' than that the child has the social, mental and emotional skills to get high-status work, then that child is immediately handicapped in the effort to get high-status work.

It doesn't matter what colour the child's skin is, where he/she went to school, or what language he/she speaks - if he/she doesn't have the skills to acquire or keep a high-status job, they're not going to.

I'm not in the States, but it's my understanding that there are plenty of programs available to teach children and adults the skills they'll need. It's not lack of opportunity. It may be a lack of patience, however. It can take a couple of generations to rise more than one or two levels of social class.

It may also be a lack of willingness to compromise. I've known people who've raised their children in their traditional culture, but also with the skills to take high-status work in the dominant culture of the country they're living in.

[AFPheonix]

It's also a very socio-economic issue, too. The blacks he's talking about are concentrated in urban areas, many of which have really crappy schools, not much in the way of jobs, high crime rates and gang problems. Blacks who do break the chain do what rich white people do: get the hell out of dodge and move into the suburbs.

[Seshat]

It's also a very socio-economic issue, too. The blacks he's talking about are concentrated in urban areas, many of which have really crappy schools, not much in the way of jobs.

I'd forgotten that the US is weird that way. In Aussieland, schools are funded by the state and federal governments, not local governments. So while there are better and worse schools, there are no useless schools. Everyone whose family wants them to get a decent education can.

And there's adult education, also state/federal funded, so if you've grown up in a family that devalued education, but want it now, you can get it.

Aussieland also has public transport in all(?) urban areas large enough to warrant it, and even the bad public transport is adequate to get you to a job you want desperately enough. You might spend over an hour each way travelling if your job is on the other side of a sprawling city, but you can make it. (Admittedly, not for a graveyard shift. But it'll do for other shifts.)

So here, if you're willing, you can get out of the ghetto.

[AFPheonix]

I would LOVE to see school funding go to state level, not to district level. I also think that we could really cut down on some of the bureaucracy endemic in our school system if we streamlined it better. Also, kicking NCLB to the curb would be lovely, too.
But then, I think I already ranted about that in a previous thread

[Seshat]

NCLB? I'm not familiar with the acronym.

Don't get the idea that Australia's perfect - it's not. But there are some things we do better than the US. And some things we do worse than the US.

I think we're better at education and health for those who aren't incredibly wealthy, though.

[AFPheonix]

No Child Left Behind. I like that it holds teachers up to a standard, but I don't like that it only teaches to a test in 2 subjects, and I don't like that it cuts funding to schools that don't hack it.
It's really sad that this is the best piece of legislation that's come from the Bush presidency, and it's still a piece of crap.

[linguist]

No Child Left Behind. I like that it holds teachers up to a standard, but I don't like that it only teaches to a test in 2 subjects, and I don't like that it cuts funding to schools that don't hack it.
It's really sad that this is the best piece of legislation that's come from the Bush presidency, and it's still a piece of crap.

not to mention that it quite often results in students who would naturally excel being held back to the level of those who do need the extra help, bringing everyone to a uniform level of mediocrity.

[Banrion]

not to mention that it quite often results in students who would naturally excel being held back to the level of those who do need the extra help, bringing everyone to a uniform level of mediocrity.

Let's not pretend that this is anything new. I went to school before NCLB, and my brother saw 2 years of HS before and 2 years after, I was an exceptional student, but the school did not have the resources to have more advanced classes, and therefore I was bored and unchallenged for most of my primary education. My brother was special ed, and still the school did not have enough resources so he was continually frustrated and falling behind. NCLB has nothing to do with the fact that administration and teachers don't have the resources to teach outside the established curricula, and the tenure system only breeds teachers who don't care, and wouldn't put in the effort even if they had the resources. I don't pretend to know how to fix it, but I definitely don't blame NCLB at all. The problem was there well before.

[AFPheonix]

There were of course problems before NCLB. But my problem with it is that is was touted to help fix some of those problems and it did not, and has in fact exacerbated others.
Like I stated before, funding at a basic level needs to be addressed. Also, spending excessive amounts of time on only 2 subjects, reading and math, will not produce well rounded students. We need to keep time aside for science, music, history, and other subjects so that we can produce kids who think, not just spit up random bits of data for tests. Besides, presenting reading and math through other classes will only help cement those lessons in the minds of our children.
These are just a few reforms that need to be made.

[CancelMyService]

The problem is that the party that has ruled the US for 20 of the last 28 years thinks education is a luxury that should only be available to those who can afford it (kind of like healthcare) and have made every and all attempt to cut/underfund education at all costs. Underpay the teachers and then point out how they're harming the kids when they dare strike (OMG UNIONZ IZ EVIL~!) in an effort to get a fair wage. Constantly harp on how funding has stayed at the same level, but ignore how costs have not remained fixed.

IMO we should cut out all the absolutely batshit insane waste in the defense budget and use it to ensure every child has a K-12 education at minimum, and if they choose there should be the abilty to attend college (at least a State run school, doesn't have to be Harvard) without having to incur massive debt right off the bat.

[Greenday]

NCLB is a total load of crap. Teacher's are now forced to teach kids to pass those tests, instead of learning important things. My high school tried to get rid of the music program all together. That is beyond messed up. All of the arts were pushed aside. And if you were in a college prep class, you could basically just call it basic skills, considering the level it was taught at. By senior year, I had mastered the art of sleeping in class and making it seem like I was focusing on my notes and I still got straight-A's. These were all honors courses too, except for AP Chem. High school didn't prepare me at all for college. Junior year was all about passing the HSPA tests. As one of my previous teachers pointed out, standardized testing is only there to check to see your level of competence. You don't have to be a genius to do decent on standardized tests. All that time that my classes spent on standardized testing, I could have actually been learning something worth learning.

As for black people causing themselves their own problems, I do think a decent amount of their problems are caused by many of them not trying to do anything about it, but a lot of other people of other races definitely aren't trying to help the situation.

Let's take the local high schools by where I live back home. My high school got little funding from the state, because most of us had some money at least. Asbury Park on the other hand, got a crapload of funding but never did as well as my high school in academics. So you can't say it's totally an issue of money cause my example just proved that even spending a lot more money on one school isn't going to make kids do better. It's a matter of whether they actually want to learn or not, and if you try, you can definitely learn in school.

[CancelMyService]

It's not entirely an issue of funding, but it's certainly a large part of the problem. Especially when the typical AM hate radio screaming head is busy equating fairness with socialism or whatever the latest evil group to compare things to is.

There's just some things that should be a given no matter where you live or what your gender/race/origin/income/etc is. Education is #1 on that list.

[Dark-Star]

Cosby's right on the money, as usual. Modern blacks have rights like the rest of us that would make any 1800's-era black person go nuts for.

Part of it is that welfare (ie; throwing $ at the problem) often pays more than a good job in some states. Worse - if/when someone on welfare gets a job, their tax rates sometimes go up so that they're actually making less! Long story short mooching off public assistance is often more lucrative and a way easier job than working at a fast-food place for minimum-wage.

It also doesn't help that in most of the US your zipcode determines where you go to school and you have no other choice...so if your local inner-city school is a hellhole, tough cookies. Parents are now lying about where they live in a desperate bid to get their children into better schools - police are going around 'checking up' on them now.

[ThePhoneGoddess]

It's not that your zip code determines what school you have to go to, it's that most of the money for public schooling comes from property taxes. Poor neighborhoods often have lots of renters, and property values are low, so the district gets little money. Wealthier neighborhoods have more homeowners and their homes cost more, so they pay higher property taxes, ergo their schools get more money. You can usually send your child to whatever school you wish as long as it's in your district.