Abortion and politics (WARNING-may be offensive, gross, NSFW)

[Nyoibo]

So on the drive down to town today on Glen Osmond Rd out of 41 signs split between at least 6 parties, I counted 19 for AbortSA, this is getting ridiculous.

[Kimmik]

Here's the problem with the pro-life movement in a nutshell.

If your friend truly believed that abortion was murder, she would not remain friends with you if you had one. Would you remain friends with a murderer?

And why would she make an exception for rape? If a woman delivers a baby that is the product of rape, is it okay in your friend's books for her to kill the baby at a later point? If one fetus = one baby, and abortion = murder, then what's the difference?

I am certain that your friend has other reasons for being anti-abortion, and it almost certainly has to do with controlling and punishing women for their sexual choices.

I am pro-life.. I think that it is the worst thing a person could do... However I still talk to relatives and friends who have had them.. While I am saddened by their choice, it is not my place to condemn them or judge them. They have to deal with their choice not I. And it has nothing to do with wanting to punish them, I just believe that you should be responsible for the choices that you make.

Personally I think that any politician that makes any topic their sole focus is a dumbass especially when there is so much to fix in any nation, such as poor children, abused children, homeless, education etc... *I speak based on an American out look since I dont know the state of the upside down countries.. gooooo timtams*

Personally I would start a campaign asking how many abandon children has this candidate taken in?

[elsporko]

Considering he is a busy politician he probably doesn't have time to take in any children.

[Fryk]

I had a roommate in college who was a radical pro-lifer. He would put his anti-abortion posters up in our dorm room, and most of them were disgusting. And I would take em down the first chance I got. I'm sorry, political views aside, whether you think it's low or not, I am not going to abide having to star at a picture of an aborted fetus's severed head when I am trying to sleep or study.

[elsporko]

I would consider that different since its a personal living space. I doubt many people were going to be swayed by your bedroom. If its a public space however you wouldn't have the right to remove the poster.

[Sarah Valentine]

I personally think the only times abortion should be alowed are in cases of rape, incest, and severe medical problem, otherwise you could always give the child up for adoption to a person that actually want's it. If you have an abortion because you just don't feel like having a kid or because it's not your boyfriends, I seriously frown on that but as much as I hate it I keep my mouth shut.

[elsporko]

I wouldn't mind seeing a law that said if you have an abortion you also have to have your tubes tied. That would prevent these people who are too dumb to use birth control from using abortions as an alternative while still keeping it available to those who need it.

[Greenday]

I wouldn't mind seeing a law that said if you have an abortion you also have to have your tubes tied. That would prevent these people who are too dumb to use birth control from using abortions as an alternative while still keeping it available to those who need it.

So you just said all women who get abortions should have their tubes forcibly tied?

I guess what you are saying is that it's impossible to get pregnant if you are on birth control or use condoms. I'd read up on contraception if I were you. You seem to be lacking some understanding that birth control can fail.

[fireheart17]

I wouldn't mind seeing a law that said if you have an abortion you also have to have your tubes tied. That would prevent these people who are too dumb to use birth control from using abortions as an alternative while still keeping it available to those who need it.

The two abortion clinics I know of in my state (I think there are more, but I'm not 100% sure) both talk a lot about contraception and while the abortion is being done, they can insert Implanon if they need it. (on a health care card, the Implanon is about $5, for everyone else it's $30)

Yes, contraception can fail. That's actually the main reason why I went on the Implanon in the first place-the failure rate is something like .05% (roughly), it isn't affected by me vomiting (the pill is), if I forget it, I won't be too worried...and it lasts for 3 years. (the failure rate of having your tubes tied is 0.5%, the failure rate of a vasectomy is about 0.1%) Back that up with condoms and you're good to go. Unfortunately, the AOC (age of consent) in my state is 17, so women I believe are a bit more reluctant to visit the clinics if they're underage.

Also, the sex ed program provided by the state (through SHine SA) makes it very clear that abortion is not to be used as a contraceptive.

[Nyoibo]

They still have sex ed in schools?

[fireheart17]

They still have sex ed in schools?

Well the schools I went to for middle school (in Australia, middle school is classified as years 6-10) all had it (all three of them).

In fact, in the first lesson we had for all of them, the teacher/s had us write down as many slang terms for various genitalia, as well as slang terms for intercourse (yes, we even added fuck). Then we had to tear them up and from then on out we had to use the correct terms in class.

[crashhelmet]

So you just said all women who get abortions should have their tubes forcibly tied?

I guess what you are saying is that it's impossible to get pregnant if you are on birth control or use condoms. I'd read up on contraception if I were you. You seem to be lacking some understanding that birth control can fail.

I wouldn't go as far as to say all women who have them should be, but I think there should be some sort of stipulation.

A girl I knew in high school had several abortions before she graduated. 4 or 5 if I remember right. She "whored" herself out in an act of rebellion to her parents and had the attitude of "I'll just abort it if I get pregnant." Gawd, I'd hate to think of the diseases she's had/has. The problem with abortions is that to some (many?) people, they become just another form of birth control.

I know that contraceptive methods don't always work. Some friends of mine have 2 kids from using various methods. After a total 5 kids, my friend had to get a vasectomy to stop it all.

I, personally, am Pro-Life. My opinion is if it has a heart beat and brain activity, it's a life and you're killing it. However, I can agree with the argument of allowing an abortion in the events of rape or when carrying the child will be too great a risk to the health of the mother.

In the instance of rape, the "daily reminder" can be too much of a psychological impact on the mother. It's not something that can be predicted. If it's too much for the mother during pregnancy, she should be allowed up until a certain point. Third trimester maybe? After that I'd say adoption if she doesn't think she could handle it.

I don't remember why she brought it up, but my American History teacher in high school told us one day that her mother died as a result of a miscarriage that her body didn't expel. She said that the dead fetus poisoned her body, but she couldn't have it removed because that was considered an abortion, which was illegal at the time. In a case like that, especially since the fetus was already dead, I'd support the "abortion." Situations where doctors can confirm it's either going to be the mother's life or the child's? That's a decision for the family to make. I wouldn't want that on my shoulders.

I'm amused by the political standpoint in this though. Especially the hypocrisy involved in it all. Pro-Choicers argue "It's my body, I can do what I want with it." Most Pro-Lifers are Conservative and Republican. A group that demands less government control/interaction/involvement, yet here they are trying to tell us what we can and cannot do. Sounds like government control/interaction/involvement to me.

CH

[elsporko]

The two abortion clinics I know of in my state (I think there are more, but I'm not 100% sure) both talk a lot about contraception and while the abortion is being done, they can insert Implanon if they need it. (on a health care card, the Implanon is about $5, for everyone else it's $30)

Yes, contraception can fail. That's actually the main reason why I went on the Implanon in the first place-the failure rate is something like .05% (roughly), it isn't affected by me vomiting (the pill is), if I forget it, I won't be too worried...and it lasts for 3 years. (the failure rate of having your tubes tied is 0.5%, the failure rate of a vasectomy is about 0.1%) Back that up with condoms and you're good to go. Unfortunately, the AOC (age of consent) in my state is 17, so women I believe are a bit more reluctant to visit the clinics if they're underage.

Also, the sex ed program provided by the state (through SHine SA) makes it very clear that abortion is not to be used as a contraceptive.

If you can't live with the consequences of an action then don't do it. Thats the way life should work.

[Fryk]

Actually, Elsporko, you may have a point there. But the world doesn't work that way. And if these promiscuous mothers you're talking about are forced to carry their child to term, who pays for the upkeep? If the mothers are as irresponsible as you claim, I doubt it's them. It's the society at large that gets stuck with the bill whther they like it or not. And the tube-tying operations? Also forced on the society at large. I'm not really drawing clear conclusions here, I'm just saying that the problem is far more far-reaching than you're making it out to be.

The only thing I will say personally is that if you're getting public funding to either get an abortion or raise your children, then the "my body, my choice" argument doesn't hold as much water as you think. If I am paying through taxes to subsidize your behavior, then why shouldn't I get a say in how my money is spent?

[AdminAssistant]

The only thing I will say personally is that if you're getting public funding to either get an abortion or raise your children, then the "my body, my choice" argument doesn't hold as much water as you think. If I am paying through taxes to subsidize your behavior, then why shouldn't I get a say in how my money is spent?

Okay, does that mean you should force a Catholic mother on welfare to take birth control (against her religion) so she can't have any more children? Or force her to have an abortion? Impose a child limit? After all, I'm paying taxes to subsidize YOUR behavior, so why shouldn't I get a say? Spin that argument around a few times and see where it gets you.

Birth control can fail and women can become pregnant through no fault of their own, whether they were raped by a stranger or a significant other, since there are husbands who rape their wives to keep them pregnant and submissive. There are times when a choice has to be made between the life of the fetus and the life of the mother. What pro-lifer's can't seem to understand is that banning abortions won't stop abortions. Desperate women will take matters (and a coat hanger) into their own hands. All it will stop is access to a safe, legal medical procedure. Also, then do they ban the morning-after pill? Birth control? The emphasis needs to be on preventing unwanted pregnancies in the first damn place. Ironically, these are usually the same people who get their knickers in a twist over schools teaching proper sexual education and not just "If you have sex before marriage then God will HATE YOU. Ignore those hormones and just pray your horny boyfriend will understand." Yeah, that always works.