Health Care reform bill reactions

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Why do we need universal healthcare? Why "fix" something that ain't broken?

The health insurance companies are not evil. For a company to thrive (any company), they have to make a profit. That's how it works in a capitalist society.

We have Government run healthcare. It's called Medicaid and Medicare. Overhaul that. Give it to people like AdminAssistant who need it but can't afford private healthcare. Medicare denies claims, tests, etc., more than private healthcare.

Why have something else in place, putting a drain on the economy, when we. already. have. something. in. place?

Because it's not enough? the void that needs filled is not within the scope of medicare or medicaid and any overhaul would change them so significantly as to be equivalent to starting a new program anyway except that there would be added risk of a failure of the new system to drag the others with it.

[muses_nightmare]

But that's the thing, it is broken. When people avoid going to the doctor because they can't afford it there is something wrong with the system. When people go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt to pay medical bills, something is wrong.

Does Medicaid cover everyone? From what I understand it doesn't.

I personally couldn't imagine not going to a doctor because I can't afford it, yet that is a reality for a lot of people.

Here we can still have private insurance through work and such. I don't see why a similar* system wouldn't work in the US, I really don't.


*note that I said similar and not the same, I'm well aware that changes would have to be made for it to work in the US.

[IDrinkaRum]

America is a country where the people take care of themselves.

The government should not take care of the people from cradle to grave. It puts an undue burden on the government thereby placing undue burdens on the people.

There is insurance out there for everyone. Whether or not they want to believe it. If they did research, they can find health care plans for themselves.

They don't do it.

I don't know why.

Medicaid and Medicare are already in place. We don't need anything else. Those need to be rehauled. I seriously doubt it would cost more than what this travesty the President has signed into law. I'm pretty sure it'll cost less.

Plus, if universal healthcare is so wonderful, why do we have people coming to America to get treatment for their illnesses? Shouldn't they be able to get treated in their own countries with their own doctors?

[Fashion Lad!]

I still don't get why it would be a bad thing for the government to run healthcare, when so many other countries governments do.

The government is batting 1.000 when it comes to failing with government run social programs involving health care.

1. Medicare - broke going bankrupt
2. Medicaid - broke going bankrupt

Social security is going to be bankrupt in 2017 or something. That is why many Americans do not want government run health care.

[muses_nightmare]

Frankly I find it offensive that you think that government run healthcare means people don't take care of themselves. If anything it means they can take better care of themselves. But go on pioneer people, please show the rest of the developed world how far behind you are in this matter.

I'd never come to the US to get treated for anything. Ever. Mainly because I think the healthcare staff here in Canada are better trained. (and I'm not referring just to doctors).

All in all, none of this matters to me, as I'm Canadian and always will be. Maybe Americans will stop coming up here trying to get in on our medical system if they have their own.

[IDrinkaRum]

You might not go to America for treatment, but that doesn't mean all Canadians share that point of view with you muses. There have been plenty of people from Canada and European countries who come here specifically to get treated. And why?

Because we do have excellent health care and doctors who go with it.

When I said America is a country of people who take care of themselves, I meant the Government isn't the one who should be helping us. Again, before the Great Depression, the Government didn't give out welfare, social security premiums, etc., etc. Before Obama, we didn't have government who bought out failing banks and car companies. That's how capitalism works: You either run with it or fail. On your own merits. With no one's help but your own.

Fashion Lad is correct - our government sucks at running social programs. This is going to be one big FUBAR and frankly, I can't wait for the November elections when the Congress goes from Democrats to Republicans.

Yes, I know the insurance question is a big thing. I have a daughter with Autism. Do you know how hard it will be to find health insurance for her when she gets older? She has a pre-condition. I should be up there cheering with the few thousand people who actually like the universal healthcare reform, but I'm not because I know this is badly flawed.

The President is still trying to sell the healthcare reform to the American people. And why is that? Because the people are pissed beyond belief that this was bullied through the houses to get it passed.

The people in charge still had to bribe people (Stupak, Florida, Louisiana to name a few) to get them to agree to the bill. One congressman was against it, and they rail-roaded him out so they could get a "yes" vote. If this was really a wonderful cure all, everyone would be lining up and there would have been no need to promise things to people.

No one knew what was in the bill until after it was passed. This President has said that all bills would be available for us to peruse before they were voted on. This one wasn't. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said if we wanted to know what was in the bill, the bill would have to be passed first. Why all the secrecy if this was going to benefit the country?

Lastly, why are we paying taxes beyond taxes now, but we don't get the benefits until 2014?

Something smells rotten in Denmark, and it's this healthcare reform.

[muses_nightmare]

and lots of Americans come to Canada. I feel safer going to the doctor in Canada, that's just my point of view on things. It also doesn't mean everyone sees things your way either.

I never once said I agree with the method of pushing through the healthcare reform. It's wrong. Though every government does things and pushes through bills and such that people don't agree with, damn near every one does. It sucks, but that's generally the way government goes about things. I don't really have a personal stake in who leads your country, frankly, I've got my own semi-retarded monkey leading my country, but I do think Obama is better than Bush, but I don't think I'm in the minority with that opinion.

I don't think this bill is what is needed. Not by a long shot. I think there is something better that could be done, what that is I can't really say. This isn't it though. They went about it the wrong way, that I'm sure we could agree on. But would you complain about a system that allows you to walk into any doctors office in your State or country without having to pay out of pocket? Or to be able to get life-saving surgery without having to think about how it will put you in debt? I'm genuinely curious.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

I'm seeing a criminal lack of proof or information backing people's accusations in this thread. Most people I've met are in favor of the bill. It was the most debated and discussed bill in recent history and was voted on fair and square by both houses. In what way does this make it 'rammed through' or 'against the will of the people?'. The people chose these representatives and the majority of them decided that the bill was a good thing and in the nation's best interest, after prolonged discussion and consideration. That's how democracy works.

To say nothing of some inane statements. Somehow Medicare and Medicaid running out of money means they haven't and aren't doing good? At best that means they aren't doing enough good, all the more reason to expand our nation's health care assistance with exactly this sort of program.

Previous administrations have bailed out industries and used stimulus packages before, it's really nothing new. And there's only one provision of the bill that's been offered as questionable is the requirement to purchase insurance, but it's been demonstrated that it's vital to make the whole thing work and that the net result is in people's best interest.

Nor has anyone proven that the program is doomed to failure. Apart from insinuating that a government quite capable of maintaining numerous public/social programs and agencies which meet with great success somehow sucks because there's been a few that didn't, and/or nothing being perfect.

[NodmiTheSellout]

I think something needs to be done re: health care, but I don't think keeping such an essential service in the hands of for-profit businesses is a good idea. It wouldn't have passed otherwise, though, so I guess they did what they could. Say anything like "socialized medicine" and people crap their pants, even though there are countries which have it and remain perfectly capitalist. Most people consider life a basic human right. In our current system, that's not really true. While it is illegal to deny people emergency care for not paying, this system still forces people to choose between tremendous debt and health. Unfortunately some people will refuse to err on the side of debt. They'll bring their family member home and hope for the best--which often just isn't going to happen. That's to say nothing of the terminally ill who, sooner than leave their families in debt by dying in a hospice, will commit suicide.

Basically, I don't think health should be a luxury of those privileged enough to have a job that offers insurance. As for "you can always find insurance"--sure, I can. I can find insurance that covers NEXT TO NOTHING. One quote I remember is something for $220 a month, and it didn't even cover lab services, which get really pricey and, more than once, have wiped out my bank account.

[KellyHabersham]

Besides...Medicare and Medicaid aren't available to a lot of people. Being a state employee, Kansas makes sure I get paid juuuuust enough to not qualify.

That's about how it is with being a city employee here in Arizona, and unfortunately I'm not just speaking of what I'm currently making - back when I first got hired, $6.54 an hour/24 hours a week was WAY too much to qualify. (and it didn't help that the woman doing my application was snotty about it)

[lordlundar]

In what way does this make it 'rammed through' or 'against the will of the people?'

Because Fox News was reporting what the people were saying. These people saying it were the teabag protesters saying they speak for the ENTIRETY of the country. Their source of the knowledge that they keep spewing? Fox News pundits.

To clarify:

1. GoP pundits says the bill is being "rammed through"
2. Fox News forms a "grassroots movement" (because apparently corporate organized groups are now considered "grassroots movement") that only allows people who follow the GoP pundits words as law.
3. Said "movement" repeats, word for word what the pundit says, without any real understanding behind what they're saying, but saying they represent everyone in the country.
4. Fox News and the same GoP pundits who started the mess are reporting it as independent opinion.

[Jason]

Fox News did NOT form the Tea Party movement...This came as a direct result of the federal government spending trillions of dollars in 1 year.
While I didn't agree with the overspending of the Repulican led Congress, the Democrat-led Congress is taking overspending to a new level. Report came out this week that US debt payments by 2020 will be 90% of GDP, a level not reached since WWII.

[lordlundar]

Fox News did NOT form the Tea Party movement...This came as a direct result of the federal government spending trillions of dollars in 1 year.

Check the funding sources on them. You'll find Fox News and other pro-conservative companies directly funding the tea party events. Not nearly the proper definition of grassroots movement. There's a reason why critics are reffering the tea party movement as an "astroturf movement".

[Jason]

From what I can find, there are 3 major Tea Party groups:
* Tea Party Patriots - conservative nonprofit led by former Republican House Majority Leader Dick Armey

* Tea Party Express - run by Our Country Deserves Better PAC, a conservative Political Action Committee

* Tea Party Nation - created by former Shelby County, Tennessee assistant district attorney Judson Phillips

I don't see any offiical connection from Fox News (or evan News Corp) to any of these groups.

[daleduke17]

Because some of their hard-earned money will go into a system where it may help someone else beside themselves. So, basically, greed.

So, why is it so wrong for one to be able to keep money they earn? Why does everyone who has some spare cash HAVE to give it to the "less fortunate"?

Remember, give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime. What happened to that?