The Tea Party

[Dreamstalker]

So Sarah Plain's in Boston today. I was watching NECN briefly before I went to work, and they had an interview with the chairman. Typical "we're not racists, one of our performers is BLACK" (the fact that you felt a need to emphasize that...) and he said the N-word very unapologetically on camera. Of course there was the Godwin-esque "this country has been moving more toward Marx and Lenin than our founding fathers"...

Maybe I'm wrong, but "no taxation without representation" means to me that they wanted a local (ie their own) government to levy taxes. Not no government as the tea party seems to think.

They had shots of some "merchandise" (good lord) tables being set up around the Common...lots of "proud member of the angry mob" and the racist slogans he claims the party doesn't tolerate.

The Boston Phoenix had an article comparing them with domestic terrorists--seems to make sense, they do nothing but spread anarchist rhetoric.

[bunnyboy]

The Boston Phoenix had an article comparing them with domestic terrorists--seems to make sense, they do nothing but spread anarchist rhetoric.

Hey keep Libertarian-Socialists out of this.

On a more serious note, seems like a lot of people who got dragged in with the no taxes part and didn't realize the key flaw of their philosophy, it's Objectivism wrapped in a shell they can feel good about rather than Rand's whole man is selfish but Objectivism will create a Utopia philosophy.

I still don't get how people fall for it.

[Dreamstalker]

Apparently, the "n-----" remark was him illustrating how the black performer was receiving hate email...okay sure, someone associating themselves with you guys gets hate mail (gee, what a shock), but still--bad timing, using black and the n-word in almost the same sentence.

I really don't get how people fall for that "toddler rage" either...well, I guess I do; some sheeple just find thinking so darn inconvenient and happily digest whatever indignant rage is spewed their way Apparently even the mainstream Republican Party hates them.

Her speech was being webcast live on one of the local news websites...I ignored it (better things to do like make some money). Tonight's news should be interesting...

[Rapscallion]

Of course there was the Godwin-esque "this country has been moving more toward Marx and Lenin than our founding fathers"...

Maybe I'm wrong, but "no taxation without representation" means to me that they wanted a local (ie their own) government to levy taxes. Not no government as the tea party seems to think.

Ironically, if you read the communist manifesto, it sets up a system where the state-management eventually disbands itself, since everyone will then live in perfect harmony or some similar optimistic concept. That's how no-government is meant to work

Rapscallion

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Ironically, if you read the communist manifesto, it sets up a system where the state-management eventually disbands itself, since everyone will then live in perfect harmony or some similar optimistic concept. That's how no-government is meant to work

Rapscallion

I'd say I've been waiting and will be waiting for that to actually happen in a communist country, but I'm not, because it won't.

[Rapscallion]

I'd say I've been waiting and will be waiting for that to actually happen in a communist country, but I'm not, because it won't.

That falls under the age-old problem faced by all social structures. Whether it be religious, political, economic, or whatever you can come up with, the main problem is that it involves humans. The first in any new system will truly believe in it. The people who come after usually comprise people who believe and people who can try and take advantage of the system for their own benefit.

Never fails to happen that way.

Rapscallion

[AdminAssistant]

The first in any new system will truly believe in it. The people who come after usually comprise people who believe and people who can try and take advantage of the system for their own benefit.

*coughStalincough*

So, I'm assuming that all of these "Tea Party" folks have their kids in private schools, did not get their education at a public university, and walk from location to location, since roads and railroads are paid for through taxes and air travel is subsidized (I think). I'm also assuming they don't use local utilities or the postal service.

I don't think these folks realize that the government is already doing tons of stuff that works. And of course racism and classism is inherent. Look at the crowds. All white, mostly middle to upper middle class. (Although the spelling on signs showcases varying levels of education.) They don't want their money going to help someone who's poor, black, Hispanic, disabled, gay, a woman, etc. They'll use the state services that benefit them, like roads and schools. But when it comes to health care, they want quality and access to be determined by wealth, and the poor can just do without. After all, if they just saved more and worked on actively cheating the government out of tax money like we do, then they wouldn't be poor! Nevermind that they might be elderly, disabled, or uneducated to the point where a minimum wage paying job is all they can get.

Mr. Scrooge, the first spirit will arrive when the bell tolls one.

[Dreamstalker]

It seems that as soon as government tries to get its hands in a communist structure, it fails.

While I do agree with 'less spending', they seem to think that the answer is to get rid of all government 'interference'...guess what, spending will still exist (infrastructure, healthcare, etc). Oh, wait...unless they mean THEY don't want to spend anything.

Fine then. If they don't want to pay for schools, care. roads etc, just make this all off-limits to them...afterall, they get the benefits without actually paying.

[Jason]

"government doing stuff that works" ??!!?!

Government programs:
* Social Security -bankrupt (or going bankrupt)
* Postal Service - bankrupt (or equivalent)
* Medicare - bankrupt (or equivalent)

Name one program that is governmnet provided that works (expect the military) and NOT going bankrupt.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

"government doing stuff that works" ??!!?!

Government programs:
* Social Security -bankrupt (or going bankrupt)
* Postal Service - bankrupt (or equivalent)
* Medicare - bankrupt (or equivalent)

Name one program that is governmnet provided that works (expect the military) and NOT going bankrupt.

Talked about this argument before. That the programs are running out of money doesn't actually speak to the effectiveness or general quality of those programs, merely that they've become over-burdened with a growing population and shifting demographics. That civil programs like most everything else need to be revamped once in a while in no way means that they've failed, merely that it's time to fix them up. Something that would be easier to do if some people weren't fighting tooth and nail against changing anything.

[Rapscallion]

merely that they've become over-burdened with a growing population and shifting demographics.

There's also scope drift, for want of a better term. "We do X, but there's enough in the budget to do part of Y as well, which is somewhat related. Oh, a new financial year and we only have the funding to do X this year. Got to get around to begging for more cash!"

Rapscallion

[Arcade Man D]

"government doing stuff that works" ??!!?!

Government programs:
* Social Security -bankrupt (or going bankrupt)
* Postal Service - bankrupt (or equivalent)
* Medicare - bankrupt (or equivalent)

Name one program that is governmnet provided that works (expect the military) and NOT going bankrupt.

Public K-12 Education
DoTs
State college systems
Federal Financial Aid programs (Pell, Perkins, etc.)

[guywithashovel]

Most of the people this thread is referring to don't really want "small government." That's just a buzzword they throw around. Sure, they are dead set against the government providing health care, protecting the environment, or regulating the economy in any way. However, most of them have no qualms with the government telling two consenting adults they can't get married and have a family or doing other things to impose *their* idea of normalcy on everyone.

Also, since the Tea Party group is so vehemently opposed to government programs, I hope they're all ready to put their money where their mouths are on that standpoint. For example, I hope none of them are planning on drawing from Social Security when they're old enough. I hope none of them use Medicare when they're old enough. If any of them lose their jobs," I hope they don't apply for any of the unemployment benefits that are available to them.

[Hyena Dandy]

I seem to recall one person told me they didn't want money taken out of medicare to be spent on socialized medicine.

I wonder if they know what socialized medicine means...

[protege]

Maybe I'm wrong, but "no taxation without representation" means to me that they wanted a local (ie their own) government to levy taxes. Not no government as the tea party seems to think.

That's how I've always seen it. To me "no taxation without representation" means that if I'm going to be taxed, I should have some way to vote either for or against it.

For example (and I'm sure I've posted this before) the city of Pittsburgh tried to implement a commuter tax. That is, they were going to tax people who worked inside the city limits (mainly downtown) but didn't live there. The tax didn't hurt the big corporations, but it did squeeze out many of the smaller merchants, some of whom had been there for years. Now the city is devoid of those shops (most of whom were owned by people from outside the city), and they can't figure out why. Gee, did anyone think that they voted with their wallets and said "fuck you" to the city?

But, some of the Tea Party folks are well beyond that point. They are against *any* tax increase. Can't say I blame them, considering spending is extremely out of control. How many trillions is the deficit up to now?