Arizona's Immigration Bill

[Greenday]

The state's can't do this, is the issue here. If you want to talk about violating the constitution, AZ is completely at fault. This is a federal system; states cannot supersede the federal government.

So, what are they really doing that isn't already law? Telling cops to do their jobs? Cops are supposed to arrest people doing illegal stuff. Crossing the border without permission is illegal.

This is a land built upon immigrants. Unless you're a bloody Native American, you don't have anything to say either.

They should be given legal rights because human rights are basic to anyone, regardless of where they come from. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator certain unalienable rights..."

I was born here. And Native Americans aren't technically from America either so don't waste your time trying that argument. They are from Asia. And we aren't talking about giving illegal immigrants basic human rights. No one believes that. We are talking about how the American government pampers illegal immigrants, even the ones who commit serious crimes here.

[Hobbs]

Let's see...oh, I know...they're racially profiling in order to cure the immigration problem. Like I said, it'll take just one good lawsuit from a wrongful detainment to stop this BS.

I was born here too. My family was born here.

Native Americans are Asian? I guess that means you're European. Where's your green card, Gen. Forrest?

[Fryk]

So, what are they really doing that isn't already law? Telling cops to do their jobs? Cops are supposed to arrest people doing illegal stuff. Crossing the border without permission is illegal.

GREAT! Then there's no need for this law, and it's a pitiful waste of time. Why would we need a law that tells people they should follow laws?

[Greenday]

Let's see...oh, I know...they're racially profiling in order to cure the immigration problem. Like I said, it'll take just one good lawsuit from a wrongful detainment to stop this BS.

I was born here too. My family was born here.

Native Americans are Asian? I guess that means you're European. Where's your green card, Gen. Forrest?

Ancestrywise, Native Americans aren't from America. Your argument makes no sense. We are talking about people who aren't from America sneaking into America and getting kicked out for it. Not people who were born legally in America by people who legally entered the country.

GREAT! Then there's no need for this law, and it's a pitiful waste of time. Why would we need a law that tells people they should follow laws?

Is there a need for the law? No. But obviously something needed to be done in order to get cops to start enforcing current ones.

[Kimmik]

Personally I think that we should do like other countries... just cause your born here doesn't give you auto-citizenship. Unless your parents are citizens. As it stands now if you come here and have a child the child is a US citizen.. which is one of the big snag points. But you can't look at someone and say hey look an illegal. Since they come in all shades.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

Ok I feel a need to chime in here on the "human rights" vs. "status rights argument. Basic human rights dictate that EVERYONE in this country, regardless of if they are here legally or otherwise, has a right to a peaceful existence and to be treated humanely. As an example: It' still wrong to murder someone even if they are an illegal immigrant.

I do agree that immigration should be a federal issue, but what happens when the federal government isn't doing anything and the state of Arizona needs to deal with an illegal immigration problem that isn't going away any time soon? I can understand why they did what they did.

I think to avoid any appearance of racial profiling or discrimination, they should enact a law that could be enforced just like drunk driving laws, you set up a checkpoint on a road and check every single person who goes by, regardless of race, religion or anything else. Not one single person could cry discrimination then.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/arti...comments/#ctop

And so it begins...a Truck driver (who's a U.S. citizen) gets into hot water in AZ because he can't come up with adequate proof of status.

[Kimmik]

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/arti...comments/#ctop

And so it begins...a Truck driver (who's a U.S. citizen) gets into hot water in AZ because he can't come up with adequate proof of status.

I think what is basically needed is for licenses and id's to have status on them. Since you have to have Birth Cert to get one in most places. And since most states have laws about having ID this shouldn't be a problem also would help track people here on visas to make sure they dont over stay them.

I am all for immigration... but legal and sane. If my Uncle could come from central Mexico legally then damn it as he would say so should every one else. My friend from Estonia came here and got her green card... why should any other not do it the same?

[Fryk]

I can understand why they did what they did.

I can understand why they did it, too. Like I said, it's a terrible law enacted for good reasons. But it's still a terrible law.

[AdminAssistant]

The biggest issue I have here has to do with requiring anyone who kinda looks Hispanic to carry around their birth certificate in order to prove they are a US citizen OR here on a legal green card/work visa. That is racial profiling, plain and simple. I mean, are they tracking down everyone who might be Canadian? Brazilian? Russian? See, the qualifier here is...we don't care about all illegal immigrants, only the Mexicans. (How many Chinese are still being smuggled here overseas?)

Yes, those that are here illegally should be dealt with, but so should the companies that actively recruit illegal workers!!!!! The great majority of them were very poor Mexican farmers who saw a notice from Tyson or another large food/agricultural organization. They came here the wrong way for the right reasons - to make money to feed their family.

What should we do? Help out the Mexican government in fighting the cartels and in providing job opportunities. Streamline the citizenship process. Slap heavy sanctions on any employer who hires illegal workers. Allow amnesty, conditional upon application for citizenship, for those who are already here, working, and who haven't committed any other crimes. Racial profiling and building a big ass wall are not solutions.

[Hobbs]

I think what is basically needed is for licenses and id's to have status on them. Since you have to have Birth Cert to get one in most places. And since most states have laws about having ID this shouldn't be a problem also would help track people here on visas to make sure they dont over stay them.

I am all for immigration... but legal and sane. If my Uncle could come from central Mexico legally then damn it as he would say so should every one else. My friend from Estonia came here and got her green card... why should any other not do it the same?

It's been talked about having a national ID system. Unfortunately, Republicans and other idiots claim it infringes on personal rights, etc.

[Kara_CS]

Okay. As far as the article about the truck driver who was pulled over, he provided a SSN, that should have been good enough. Whether they have the physical card in their presence or not, law enforcement still has to run the number to reference it.

Here's my problem with this whole thing. Arizona voted to make illegal immigration criminal. Did the definition of "illegal" change at some point? This shouldn't even be an issue. Now, I can understand the concerns of racial profiling, but let's be realistic here. Police are dealing with drunk drivers, drug deals, prostitution, thefts, assaults, shootings, murders, rapes, missing persons, domestic violence, break-ins, minor traffic infractions, suspicions persons calls, personal property damage calls, providing escorts, and calls from the crazy old lady down the street who thinks Satan is in her washing machine. Not to mention the abso-fucking-lutely enormous amount of paperwork that goes along with each of those calls, not to mention arrests, taking the suspects into custody, more paperwork for processing them into jail, and somewhere in there maybe getting five minutes to get a bite to eat, call their loved ones at home, or just breathe. Now, to add to all that, people honestly think that the police are also going to line the roadside like they do for "speed traps" just to pull over everyone who looks hispanic and bully them into showing identification? These are the same people who think police do nothing more than eat donuts and write speeding tickets on honest, hard-working people to meet their "quota."

I saw a clip on the news this morning about this gal who is here legally and is packing up in case they need to "escape." This is because her boyfriend came to this country illegally 4 years ago, and oh my, what ever shall they do when the big mean gestapo goose-steps into their home and drags them kicking and screaming across the border?

If you want to live here, fine. Do it legally. Don't give me that bullshit about how "we're all descended from immigrants," either. Yes, technically you are correct. However, you can't bitch about policies and circumstances that didn't exist generations ago. We are talking about now. Now there are a few more billion people living here than there used to be and eventually things have to change.

It's not like gaining citizenship is some kind of expensive, complicated process. Look at the guy who's been here for 4 years illegally. Becoming a US citizen requires that you live in this country for at least 5 years. But he skipped the step about coming to this country legally and decided to sneak across the border. He screwed himself, sucks to be him.

Some would argue that illegal immigrants do the jobs that citizens won't do. This is not the least bit true. They are just willing to do the jobs for very little pay. If you are a US citizen, you are entitled to be paid at least the Federal Minimum Wage. When I was little, my dad, a bigoted white American redneck, worked at a meat-packing plant. It sucked. We struggled a lot. In high school I toured the plant for an occupational technology class I was in. If someone wants to work there for magic beans, they are out of their fucking minds. The working conditions are terrible and it is incredibly dangerous. I've heard tales of the horrible ways people have been killed in those kinds of places. Get your damned citizenship already and at least get the money the law says you should get.

This is another problem. Doing jobs for less than necessary-for-human-survival-wages means they need government assistance to fill in the gaps, and that only makes it harder for legal citizens. When I worked at a grocery store in high school, we saw it all the time. The single mom with 2 jobs and 3 kids was buying beans and "day-old" bananas because she was just over "the line" income-wise, but the family of illegal immigrants working for the Tyson plant with 10 kids was using food stamps to buy lobster, 50 pounds of beef brisket, prime cut steaks, fresh produce, artisan breads, and tons of candy and ice cream. They did so with a smile on their faces, and the government's expense. The struggling single mother? Yeah, the taxes that came out of her barely-enough to survive earnings were paying for their fucking food stamps.

[crashhelmet]

Okay. As far as the article about the truck driver who was pulled over, he provided a SSN, that should have been good enough. Whether they have the physical card in their presence or not, law enforcement still has to run the number to reference it.

I can tell you from first hand experience that a Social Security Number is not proof enough for citizenship.

Back 1998, my best friend and I went down to Guadalajara, Mexico for spring break. We both had family down there and he had lived down there for a few years after his parents divorced, but he never rescinded his US Citizenship. At this time, passports weren't needed for travel to Mexico. All you needed was a valid ID.

When we got back into the States, we happened to be the last two to come off the plane and go through Customs and Immigration. I don't remember what exactly prompted them to question his citizenship, aside from maybe his Spanish name, but they did. I bring this up because I made the "mistake" of referring to his Social Security Card and asking if you had to be a citizen to get one. I pointed out that there was a difference in a Social Security Card and Workers Card. I was quickly escorted away from the conversation by 2 Customs officials that took me into a separate room and proceeded to strip search me and comb through all of my bags as if I had "Drug Smuggler" tattooed across my forehead.

They let us both go, but gave him some sort of order to goto the Immigration office in San Francisco and present his documentation within 2 weeks or risk being deported.

The only thing that is going to protect a US Citizen is to have their Birth Certificate or Citizenship papers on them. Nothing else will suffice.

CH

[Hobbs]

Kara, I suggest you watch Ep. 201 of the show 30 Days by Morgan Spurlock (the Super-size Me guy). It deals with a "Minuteman" living with a family of illegal immigrants. At no point does this family get government assistance, and both the mother and father work very hard to provide for their family.

As for Minutemen...they should be arrested for vigilantism and usurping Federal authority.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

Kara, I suggest you watch Ep. 201 of the show 30 Days by Morgan Spurlock (the Super-size Me guy). It deals with a "Minuteman" living with a family of illegal immigrants. At no point does this family get government assistance, and both the mother and father work very hard to provide for their family.

As for Minutemen...they should be arrested for vigilantism and usurping Federal authority.

Let me clear up a few things here.

If you are here illegally you cannot qualify for government assistance unless you are using some sort of forged documents. Also, it makes sense that there are immigrant families, just like non-immigrant families, who can get by without government aid.

However, there's another issue muddling this whole thing up, it's called the matricula consular.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matr%C3%ADcula_Consular


The Matricula Consular de Alta Seguridad (MCAS) (Consular Matriculation of High Security) is an identification card issued by the Government of Mexico through its consulate offices to Mexican nationals residing outside of Mexico regardless of their emigration status.[1] Also known as the Mexican CID card, it has been issued since 1871,[2] and cardholders could be either legal or illegal aliens in the foreign country they are residing in.[3] The official purpose of the card is to demonstrate that the bearer is a Mexican national living outside of Mexico. It includes an official Government of Mexico issued ID number and bears a photograph and address of the Mexican National to whom it is issued.

Due to the lobbying efforts by the Mexican government's foreign Consular agents since March 2002, several U.S. states, municipalities, and businesses have been accepting the Matricula Consular as an official form of identification.[4][5] Two million Mexican CIDs were issued in 2002-2003.[6] A number of countries have followed suit including Guatemala, Brazil, and Ecuador. Other countries are considering the program, including: Colombia, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, and Peru.[2][7] "

So to summarize, an illegal immigrant can go to a Mexican Consulate in the U.S. and get one of these Photo ID cards and then use it to open bank accounts, use certain government services and do many other things they should be restricted from doing because they are, you know, illegal.

I hold a green card. I came to the U.S. legally and it's not a "quick and easy" process. I had to fill out probably about 100 pages of forms, go through two medical exams, meet with several lawyers, gather up all kinds of documents to support every thing I wrote in the application. In the case of my particular visa type (K-1 fiance) it took a little over two years from initial application to green card but I have to renew the green card another two years from now and wait at least 5 years to apply for citizenship.

If the government passed some kind of bill that would allow illegal immigrants to gain citizenship ahead of someone like me, who came here legally, I would be majorly pissed and I would be raising hell to whoever I had to get my citizenship faster.

I get that illegal immigrants (and for the record, you'll never catch me saying "undocumented aliens" that's a bogus term if I ever heard one) can be hard working and want to raise families and not cause trouble in this country. That's great, but that doesn't change the fact they are criminals. It is a violation of federal law to be in this country without proper documentation.

Yes I feel strongly about this issue because of the effort and expense involved in my coming here legally. I'm not inhuman, I don't hate illegal immigrants, I just think they should be treated as anyone who does wrong should be treated and that involves some form of punishment, not a reward of U.S. citizenship.