"I want to be treated the same as everyone else"

[Hobbs]

Uh, I *know* that. Still, when one thinks of "European," they think of Germany, France, England, etc. not Sweden, Norway, and Denmark

Really? Then those people need to go back to their geography teacher and punch 'em in the scrote.

[protege]

Because I was born here (a.k.a. "accidental" American) and I'm proud to live in America. I'm not demanding that everyone else cater to my needs nor am I demanding that everyone bow down to my Quebecois / Irish ancestry. You don't see me calling myself French-Canadian-American or Irish-American, I'm an AMERICAN. I wave two flags - the American flag and the Gadsden flag. Both are symbols of America and American history.

While I'm proud of my Norwegian-Irish-German-Welsh, etc. heritage, I prefer to call myself an American. Also, my great-grandfather was of Irish heritage...yet was born in Canada. Seems his mother was pregnant when the ship left Ireland during the potato famine

Even though I consider myself an "American," that doesn't mean I haven't been learning about the other cultures in my "melting pot." For example, I know that some of my descendants left Norway in 1850...and ended up in what is now Ossian, Iowa. In fact, the church they helped create...is still there! Also interesting, is that some of my ancestors were supposedly in Newfoundland about 500 years before Columbus. Haven't found any actual proof of that, since commoners' records weren't kept very well over the centuries. But it is funny to tell people "Yeah, my family's been kicking ass in the US for over a thousand years "

[Hobbs]

Ehe, my family's been defending its homeland since 1492.

[Teysa]

Perhaps I missed something, but where is Draggar saying to go back to wherever you came from? He's just saying to respect where you are. It seems to me that it wouldn't be any different if you packed up and moved to say Japan. While your American, or Mexican, or European, or Martian heritage would always be a part of you, you would still have to adapt to Japanese culture. That would mean learning the language, the customs, the rules of the road, etc. You probably wouldn't or at least shouldn't expect special treatment because you're x color or y nationality.


As far as equal rights goes, everyone should have the same opportunities to pursue their goals. They should also be required to meet the same requirements. If you wish to get into an Ivy League University, then you should have to work just as hard to keep your GPA up, get a good SAT/ACT score and meet any of the other requirements whether you're black, white, or purple with pink polka-dots.

[Amanita]

I would like to know where he is seeing these signs that say "No whites" or "blacks only".
If these are being displayed on the doors of businesses, screw me if I'm wrong, but isn't it illegal to descriminate on basis of race? If a business is not allowed to bar black people, then barring whites should not be allowed either. (Business as opposed to club)

And I agree on the ID photos with veils issue- that's a safety thing right there.
I remember this debate in Toronto back in 2001- bus passes there require a photo, and a muslim woman took issue. A muslim scholar pointed out that the Koran states that a veiled woman may show her face to an authority figure if needed, and a bus driver counts as an authority figure.

[Hobbs]

Perhaps I missed something, but where is Draggar saying to go back to wherever you came from?

- then go back there

There ya go.

[HYHYBT]

On affirmative action: the problem, as I understand it, is that there isn't really a good way to know the hiring is done fairly; the closest you can do is to see if the results are in the same proportion you'd expect. Not perfect by any means.

Gays / Lesbians / Bisexuals - you demanded to be allowed the same rights as married couples / shared benefits. Many states and companies give you this now yet my wife and I can't go into a friend's resort room when he's here because we're a straight couple.

I don't know what you're talking about. Could you possibly explain what you mean?

Growing up it was the CHRISTMAS SEASON. Even as a non-Catholic, I called it the Christmas season. But then, non-Christan groups demanded to be treated the same! On, we have to look at all these other holidays but we also can't call it the Christmas season anymore! We need to call it the holiday season! But we sure as hell have to recognize them as Chaunakah (sp?), Kwanzaa (sp?) etc.

Nothing contradictory about calling the time from before Thanksgiving to after New Year's "the holiday season" while also referring the the individual holidays contained therein by their names when they specifically are the topic of discussion.

Spanish speaking people demanded to be treated like everyone else yet try to get anything done in Miami without knowing Spanish, hell, try to even get hired ANYWHERE in Miami without knowing Spanish. It is very hard - most positions there have a "bilingual" requirement.

That's a matter of point of view. You could, and apparently would, say that you're "treating people equally" by speaking only English, no matter what language(s) the person you're speaking to understands. But you could at least as well say that it's "treating people equally" to do your best to communicate with everyone in ways they understand. More to the point, in Miami there are so *many* Spanish-speaking people that it doesn't make sense not to learn it. Your boss/coworkers/customers speak it, so why shouldn't you as well?

As I see it, the language thing is more a matter of courtesy on both sides than equality.

[Greenday]

There ya go.

Wow, congratulations! You can take quotes out of context!

If you read what he said, it'd be pretty obvious if people want to affiliate themselves more with some other country than America, then why the hell are they here? If being AFRICAN-American or ITALIAN-American or whatever-American is so much more important than being an American, why stay in America since your country your heritage is from is obviously better and more important?

[draggar]

There ya go.

Try quoting the whole message as opposed to taking little bits from here or there to suit your own needs. This is what I said:

IMO saying it that way insinuates that the first part is more important than the American part. If that's true - then go back there.

Mis-quoting people and doing exactly what you're doing just hurts your own credibility.

I would like to know where he is seeing these signs that say "No whites" or "blacks only".
If these are being displayed on the doors of businesses, screw me if I'm wrong, but isn't it illegal to descriminate on basis of race? If a business is not allowed to bar black people, then barring whites should not be allowed either. (Business as opposed to club).

Yes, it is illegal. If I opened a store and put a sign on the front that said "Whites only" you can rest assured that someone would complain and I would have the ACLU and the news at my door painting me as the biggest monster that's ever lived.

Yet, I used to pass a hip-hop bar during work and they had a sign on the front door "blacks only".

One of my neighbors had his application to live in a (different) HOA community because he wasn't black.

Funny how some people are all up in arms when someone who is of a "minority" ethnicity has their civil rights violated yet when someone who is part of a "majority" ethnicity no one seems to care when their civil rights are violated. This sounds very hypocritical to me.

[Hobbs]

Wow, congratulations! You can take quotes out of context!

If you read what he said, it'd be pretty obvious if people want to affiliate themselves more with some other country than America, then why the hell are they here? If being AFRICAN-American or ITALIAN-American or whatever-American is so much more important than being an American, why stay in America since your country your heritage is from is obviously better and more important?

Because crossing a line on a map doesn't take away the generations of rich cultural heritage you brought with you. I don't consider myself Mexican-American because I was born here, but I see it perfectly acceptable for a friend of mine (who is naturalized) to refer to him as such. And considering he still has family in Mexico, I see nothing wrong with him taking pride in his home country. Oh, and he's also a pilot-candidate in the USAF.

[BlaqueKatt]

I don't consider myself Mexican-American because I was born here, but I see it perfectly acceptable for a friend of mine (who is naturalized) to refer to him as such.

um where is Mexico located on your map?

oh that's right it's considered part of NORTH AMERICA-so "Mexican-American" is completely redundant isn't it?

Hint America=/= United States-just as England=/=Europe and Mongolia=/=Asia-the US in merely ONE COUNTRY in North America

[Hobbs]

I'm tired of the whole "We're America too!" BS from Canada and Mexico. My Latin Geo teacher once brought up, "I dunno why the US calls itself the 'United States of America' cuz you also have Mexico and Canada." It took all I had not to call her out that we were the first, so we get dibs on what to call ourselves.

[Plaidman]

Uh Dude...? Vikings were in Canada first. And Azteks were in Mexico first. Indians were in America first.

People from England were not the first here.

[draggar]

Because crossing a line on a map doesn't take away the generations of rich cultural heritage you brought with you. I don't consider myself Mexican-American because I was born here, but I see it perfectly acceptable for a friend of mine (who is naturalized) to refer to him as such. And considering he still has family in Mexico, I see nothing wrong with him taking pride in his home country. Oh, and he's also a pilot-candidate in the USAF.

No, but crossing that line on the map puts you in a different country with a different culture. I've said, many times, people shouldn't forget / ignore their heritage and culture but they shouldn't expect the entire country give in to your culture.

I'm not up on Mexican culture and/or traditions (never had the opportunity to learn) but go ahead - practice your culture, do what is commonly done in Mexico (for celebrations, holidays, etc..). If others want to learn, teach them but do go out and push your culture on others who don't want to take part in it. (Since you like to misquote me, I am not saying that you push it on everyone, just my issue is with people who feel that they have a right to push their culture onto everyone else and demand everyone else to follow their culture).

[Plaidman]

I agree with you draggar.

It's sad life here. I agree that everyone should have their own culture, and be treated equally, but when they start screaming that people are racist/anti-religious etc etc, just because a company or neighborhood doesn't bend over backwards to comform to their views, (But belive me, they will NOT do the same in return).

What Draggar hates Hobbs, is when people force their views on others, but will not do the same in return. Period. That is unfair.

Say for example the holiday season. There are people who for example, in school, that shout they do not follow Christmas, they celebrate Haunaka. That's fine. But when they basically state that they want the entire school to celebrate Haunaka rather then Christmas, that is where the has been crossed, and that is what people do. That isn't equality. That's just stupid.