"I want to be treated the same as everyone else"

[muses_nightmare]

I agree with some of the points made here. I agree that people should be treated equally, rather than "more equally" than others.

I know a lot of people would think that I'm racist because of my attitudes about First Nations people, and I don't discriminated against them. I simply have a problem with any one group being given preferential treatment. I'm of the opinion that when Europeans settled in North America, they conquered. That's how the world works.

Maybe a bit on the harsh side, but it's true. Now I have to clarify by saying I don't agree with what happened later on, the residential schools and the taking away of culture, but unfortunately, humankind is not a nice species. These are not things I personally did to anyone, heck, my ancestors weren't even here, so I'm not going to walk around being sorry for something I had no part in. The fact that people walk around expecting special treatment because of things that never actually happened to them (people my age I mean) either pisses me off. Hell it pisses a lot of the First Nations off, I know many who would rather not have status or take advantage of the government like some people do.

Tax exemptions, special scholarships, special clubs, the over saturation of one culture over another are all things that need to stop. Canada has two official languages and you can walk through neighbourhoods in my city and not see one letter of either language, people come and try to turn parts of cities into their home country. That I do have a problem with.

Assume what you will about me based on this small post, but I'll have you know that I've never once assumed anything about someone because they were a certain race. I would never call anyone anything that would offend them on purpose (it's not my fault when what is PC changes all of a sudden). and I don't have a problem learning about other cultures, it's just when it's shoved in my face, like Native culture was from Kindergarten right into College for example, we were just expected to learn everything about their culture while our own (Canadian) was confined to only a few classes at the end of the year. What does that say? I'm proud to be Canadian. Whatever people think of the history doesn't make me any less proud.

(Also, I'm not American. North American if you want to get Technical, but people from the US are American, not me. I'm Canadian. and if you didn't notice, I don't refer to the US as America, I refer to it as the US or The States, so does everyone else I know. Just a little tid bit of info there. )

[draggar]

reality check on that one, by many states you mean 5. 5 out of 50 (well 6 if you include the District of Columbia and then it is out of 51). That is the entirety of states that have extended "full" equality (at a state level only, the number of states where there is equal rights at the federal level is 0). In half the states there is ZERO legal protections. If my boss wanted to, he could walk into my cubicle and say "I saw you out with your boyfriend last weekend, I don't approve of that, I don't care that you've passed all your test calls, you're fired." And with the companies that offer it are a huge minority of companies in the country.

I said many states and companies. Even my own company, who has traditionally been extremely conservative and looking under everywhere to save a penny is now offering "domestic partnership" benefits to non-married couples (same-sex and opposite-sex couples).

And please explain your story of your friend's room. Is that your friend's rule or the resort's rule?
If it's your friend's rule, then your friend is a douche which isn't limited by age, gender, race, religion, or orientation.
If it's the resort rule, welcome to my world. I've had a hotel clerk refuse to check me and my boyfriend into a room with one bed, told us if we wanted to check in and not have a no show penalty that I had to pay to upgrade to a room with two beds.

The resort's rule. This friend has been a very good friend of ours for as long as my wife and I have been together - he was one of the first of her friends I met. He was even the person who married us. He wouldn't care if I was in his room or not (thank god the local gay bar is extremely tolerable).

The hotel you mentioned had no right to do that - who are they to judge? I guess the clerk (or the person who made the policies that the clerk had to follow) thinks homosexuality is contagious, too?

Sadly, something like that happened here in PA years ago. I don't know if anything has changed since then, but back then, sexual orientation was not a protected category. There was a new story about an attorney who got hired at a law firm, and subsequently fired once they found out he was gay, citing their policy that listed "homosexuality" being one of the reasons that are grounds for dismissal.

Something similar happened with a store in CT - a girl was fired for being Wiccan. (I forgot but I think it was Bath and Body Works?).

Hell, even in Firefox's spell checker "Wiccan" isn't a word.

[Ree]

She didn't ask what state my grandmother was born in. It was as if she didn't believe my affirmation that my grandmother was American...

Hmmm...I went back and read through the previous exchange with Kimmik.

It was pretty obvious to me that she wanted to know which area of the US, and what time frame.

Kimmik, my grandmother was from the US and didn't speak a lick of English.

As for your Grandmother may I ask what language she spoke? Was she raised in the US, go to US schools?

My grandmother was from the US...so yes she was raised here.

Ok I am curious where did your grandmother grow up and when?

[blas87]

I've brought it up before (and thank you Mike for bringing up the United Negro College Fund bit), and I'll say it again.

I think it sucks that I have to wait until a certain time so that financial aid won't go by what my parents earn, but all the Hmong immigrants here get plenty of aid to go to school.

Isn't it racist to assume that every white kid has rich parents and doesn't need help going to school?

[Kimmik]

WTF? I just said she grew up in America.

As many have stated I asked "Ok I am curious where did your grandmother grow up and when?"

Normally when one is asking where they tend to mean location.

For example My Grandfather grew up in a time when it was ok to take Indian children and separate them from family and culture and "Beat" the Indian out of them at an "Indian" School. They were not allowed to talk their native language even among friends.

My grandmother was born in Indian territory so schools were few and far between.

My Great-Grandmother wasnt allowed to go to school as she was Mulatto.

My grandfather who had all the reason in the world to hate people who were "white" taught my parents that skin mattered not...

My Uncle from Central Mexico would tell me that it is always important to know the language of where you are at BUT never let go of your own language or culture but to also embrace that culture of where you move.

And to be honest I really think that they need to get rid of the born here auto-citizenship. It should be only the case if one or both parents are legal citizens.

And to be honest at least you can say you belong to a culture, because we do not have my grandfather's number, and mysteriously the BIA lost records I do not have the right to call myself Indian, nor because I have more euro features am I allowed to mark any other box when asked.

[Hobbs]

As an argument against the "anti-auto citizenship" argument: there was a newstory (can't remember where) about two brothers who had been born in Switzerland. Now, the Swiss have that same kind of law; birth doesn't include citizenship. So they have to petition for it, and it is voted on by the local populace. They have tried 5-6 times, and each time the people of their hometown deny them citizenship. The men are Middle Eastern, and though not substantiated, they feel it is racism that keeps them from attaining citizenship.

That then, is my problem with a law such as this. Without birth, how do you determine citizenship? Do they have to serve in the military or get good grades? Why one man and not his neighbor?

My grandparents taught me not to trust whites, because all they want is your land and they lie to you.

[draggar]

As an argument against the "anti-auto citizenship" argument: there was a newstory (can't remember where) about two brothers who had been born in Switzerland. Now, the Swiss have that same kind of law; birth doesn't include citizenship. So they have to petition for it, and it is voted on by the local populace. They have tried 5-6 times, and each time the people of their hometown deny them citizenship. The men are Middle Eastern, and though not substantiated, they feel it is racism that keeps them from attaining citizenship.

That then, is my problem with a law such as this. Without birth, how do you determine citizenship? Do they have to serve in the military or get good grades? Why one man and not his neighbor?

The issue is that say an illegal alien crosses the border and has a baby. Now, according to US law that baby is a US citizen. We can't force the baby out and since the baby is a minor and can't (by law) take care of itself, we have to at least allow the mother to stay here.

I agree, birth in the USA shouldn't guarantee citizenship but I think that Switzerland law has it wrong. If both parents are US citizens then yes, the child is a citizen. If they are not, then they need to apply for the process (but there are different typs of aliens here in the US - illegal aliens, resident aliens (green card, I think), student visas, political refugee, work visas, etc. If both parents become US citizens then a child that they had (say until the child's 18th birthday?) should also be granted citzenship. But the "grey area" is about the other statuses? What process for those?

My grandparents taught me not to trust whites, because all they want is your land and they lie to you.

I hope it didn't stick. I've seen that thinking even when I was in school. I was taught Russians were evil and wanted to destroy the USA and take over the world, luckily it didn't stick in me.

Its sad that racism and prejudice were taught in school as recent as the 1980's (when I was in school).

[Hobbs]

Russians did want to take over the world and destroy the USA in the 1980's. That's not racist. That's recognizing the threat posed by the Cold War.

Well, in my parent's view, whites haven't done much to redeem themselves.

[Kimmik]

*snip*

That then, is my problem with a law such as this. Without birth, how do you determine citizenship? Do they have to serve in the military or get good grades? Why one man and not his neighbor?

My grandparents taught me not to trust whites, because all they want is your land and they lie to you.

I believe I stated that it should be based of your parents status. So I am a citizen because my parents are. So at birth I am granted that status my parents have. So if one is here illegally then so are any children that they may give birth to.

[Hobbs]

Why are you insistent on punishing children for their parent's crime? That seems pretty cruel, since children have no control over where they are born.

[Kimmik]

Why are you insistent on punishing children for their parent's crime? That seems pretty cruel, since children have no control over where they are born.

It is not punishment. Why should they be automatically citizens? The answer is they shouldn't.

[Hobbs]

It is not punishment. Why should they be automatically citizens? The answer is they shouldn't.

Why shouldn't they? What's the difference between a person born of a citizen or a person born of an immigrant? Does being the child of a citizen make you better?

[Pagan]

Spanish speaking people demanded to be treated like everyone else yet try to get anything done in Miami without knowing Spanish, hell, try to even get hired ANYWHERE in Miami without knowing Spanish. It is very hard - most positions there have a "bilingual" requirement.

Heh, I had someone accuse me of lying on an application one time. I marked that I was bilingual. When asked my fluency in Spanish I said "none". When they tried to make an issue out of it, I pointed out that "bilingual" only means "two languages". I just happen to speak English and French.

I see many immigrants who are farm more American than many people who live here.

I'm with you on the ______-American thing. You don't see Craig Ferguson referring to himself as Scots-American. He's proud to be an American.

'American' isn't a race.

Neither is "Mexican".

I never said it was just from mexico..

My Uncle had issues about those from Mexico that did not learn English, I have a problem with any nationality coming here and not speaking the common language. Or drivers test in a multitude of languages.

As for your Grandmother may I ask what language she spoke? Was she raised in the US, go to US schools? I know my grandfather had his language beaten out of him... to teach him English.

Kimmik, it's not unusual for people born in El Segundo Barrio in El Paso to never learn English. And these are natural-born citizens.

The issue is that say an illegal alien crosses the border and has a baby. Now, according to US law that baby is a US citizen. We can't force the baby out and since the baby is a minor and can't (by law) take care of itself, we have to at least allow the mother to stay here.

And believe me, it happens. Before I was born, my mom worked in the hospital in Las Cruces. Many was the time that they would get a woman show up to deliver and they knew she was a Mexican national, but she would be so close to delivering that they couldn't refuse her. They would bypass El Paso because it was too easy to be put back across the border.

Why are you insistent on punishing children for their parent's crime? That seems pretty cruel, since children have no control over where they are born.

If my parents had been in, say, France, when I was born, that wouldn't have made me French. I would still be American because my parents are American. And by American, I mean a citizen of the US.

Why don't you go back to Europe then and leave America to the real Americans?

I have to ask what ethnicities exactly are you claiming?

Are you claiming to be of completely indigenous blood? If so, is it Maya or Tarahumara or one of the other 15 in Mexico? If you claim any Spanish blood at all that means you're part European....just like me.

And what do you mean that your ancestors have been defending their land since 1492? Do you claim Honduran ancestry, too? That's as close as Columbus got to Mexico.

I can trace my heritage back here. Doesn't stop people like Draggar from telling me to go back to Mexico. If that's how it is, then I'll do it right back.

Well, I've gotten told to go back where I came from, too, many times since I moved to Albuquerque. Thing is, "where I came from" is Las Cruces. I'm a native born New Mexican. I just happen to be of Scots-Irish-Viking descent and look it. So that means I'm not from here.

[Fryk]

Why are you insistent on punishing children for their parent's crime? That seems pretty cruel, since children have no control over where they are born.

Ok, let's do it your way. The kid become a US citizen because he's born here. But who's going to raise him? The mom is still not a citizen. Why should we make her one? Why should we reward the parent just because their child was born here? And what's so cruel about sending them back home?

But ok, since we should reward or punish one party because of circumstances involving the other, then the child stays and we boot the mom out as soon as she can leave the hospital. Then, we throw the child into already overworked and overcrowded foster care. Sounds like a wonderful non-cruel solution to me.

[Kimmik]

Why shouldn't they? What's the difference between a person born of a citizen or a person born of an immigrant? Does being the child of a citizen make you better?

I am sorry Hobbs but why should someone who flaunts a blatant abuse of our laws be given special treatment. I am not saying one child or person is better then the next.. what I am saying is that it should not be a free pass to anyone that had their mother be in this country when they were born to give them automatic citizenship.

Now if the parents are here on a visa or what ever... and they apply for citizenship following the laws, then the children should also be made citizens with no extra steps.