"I want to be treated the same as everyone else"

[Kimmik]

Many Immigrants come here to work, there is a visa just for that. I work with people that are from other parts of the world. Ireland, Pakistan, Somalia, Canada, Mexico and others. The thing is they all came here via the proper route.

I am all for people coming here honest.. just legally, learning the language, becoming part of their community.

I have the utmost respect for those that come here legally, they bust their ass. But I have also seen the side of what happens to illegals. They are abused, scared to go to the police, work in shitty conditions... This wont get better if we turn a blind eye to illegal immigration.

[Nyoibo]

Now, what happens when, say, a Canadian and a Mexican have a child together in Nebraska? The child doesn't belong in the US, because the parents are from elsewhere. It also doesn't belong in Canada or Mexico, because only one parent is from each. Where is he supposed to go? For that matter, a US citizen who has a baby here with someone from out of the country would be out of luck as well. It just makes no sense.

The child ends up like my sister, Japanese mother, Australian father, born in Ohio, she is given U.S. citizenship, but she is also eligable for Japanese and Australian citizenship, once she turns 18 however she has a choice to make on which citizenship she takes. (Japan does not allow you to hold dual-citizenship)

Not so much your uncle as the goverment that basically needs to act like giant bullies.

Not all people get lucky breaks like your uncle. For example, a woman from Iraq? Good luck to her getting here legally. She'll ether break laws there that could get her KILLED, versus breaking a stupid law here, but getting enough time and money saved up to become a citizen.

Egypt? Need to be one of the of they very few people that the Egypt goverment may or may not grant a chance to be a US citizen. Once a year. Maybe ten people. Can't choose to come here otherwise period.

Ethopia? Niger? Somalia? Freaking CONGO? Sure. All anyone from there has to do is take a dump, and they'll magically have the money to get here.

It just not plain easy for some people. After all, how can one come here legally, if they don't even have a penny period to get here?

The diference is once they're here, instead of trying to stay under the radar and continue to break the law, if they were refugees seeking asylum, then they claim asylum.

[draggar]

So you support a law that breaks apart families? And you think they're the criminals?

If the parents are using the child to attempt to circumvent laws? What does that say about the parents? What kind of life would the child have if the parents are already exploiting them before they're born?

[Kimmik]

So you support a law that breaks apart families? And you think they're the criminals?

It is not the LAW that broke up the families, it is the parents who broke the law. It is no different then when my Aunt lost all custody of her children because she did drugs. The law didn't break her family, her choosing to violate the law did.

[Fryk]

I agree with you, Plaidman. So let's just make it less time consuming and expensive to follow the law, then. I have no problem with that. What I DO have a problem with is them flaunting the law. I don't get a free pass to break a law because it's inconvenient. Why should anyone else?

[Hobbs]

It is not the LAW that broke up the families, it is the parents who broke the law. It is no different then when my Aunt lost all custody of her children because she did drugs. The law didn't break her family, her choosing to violate the law did.

Having your children taken away for abusing drugs is a lot different then working your butt off for bad pay to give them a good life.

[Kimmik]

I agree with you, Plaidman. So let's just make it less time consuming and expensive to follow the law, then. I have no problem with that. What I DO have a problem with is them flaunting the law. I don't get a free pass to break a law because it's inconvenient. Why should anyone else?

Amen.. This is why I am for immigration reform.. Make it easier to sponsor, cheaper and easier to become a citizen but for all that is holy do it the LEGAL way.

[blas87]

It's not like it's any harder in America than anywhere else to get citizenship.

If I remember correctly, either on here or CS in recent times, someone or a couple of members posted about how difficult it is to get citizenship in Europe and frack, even Canada.

So it's not like America is a big bully "You can't be here unless it's legal!" when I'm certain other countries are much harsher on illegal aliens when they are caught not having a green card or breaking the law.

[Kimmik]

Having your children taken away for abusing drugs is a lot different then working your butt off for bad pay to give them a good life.

Both violated law and no matter how noble the cause if you intentionally break a law you should expect to face the consequences. How is it fair to those that worked to get here legally?

[Plaidman]

Both violated law and no matter how noble the cause if you intentionally break a law you should expect to face the consequences. How is it fair to those that worked to get here legally?

Life isn't fair is the common answer.

If you want life to be fair, then you need to treat all people equally. Send food to other countries. Its not fair that you just need to walk outside to a store for food.

Its not fair to all the countless victims out there who are raped every night.

It's not fair that some people work their entire lives for nothing but whip lashs.


EDIT: Sorry. That last line was really um. Uncalled for to say the least, your uncle didn't deserve that name so I erased it.

I understand the need for laws. But while some laws are good and just, there are equally just as many stupid and pointless laws. Anything that basically takes away the very right of all humanity of just and way to live their life as best they see fit other then of course causing pain to others is just stupid and unfair. Why, how is it fair and just that people basically must pay to live in a new country.

If you want to argue that all laws must be followed, I can asure you that broken a few already. Jaywalking for example. Hell, in freaking Montona I belive, there is a law that states you cannot give your girlfriend a box weighing LESS then fifty pounds. In a southren state, it's against the law to NOT tip your hat to any female being, INCLUDING female animals. In Oregon, its against the law to snore loudly. Some states, its against the law to freaking sleep in a bathtub.

If someone can come over here, and work hard to support whatever american dream they want, then they should feel free to do so, without having to go first through so many freaking channels and such.

And not all people seeking asylum are granted it. It's bad enough that they are going to have to force themselves to learn English, (Despite it not being the /offical/ lanagage of the US), bad enough they will be facing harsh racism, bad enough they're in a unknown land where they have next to nothing in resources. Why force them out if they aren't doing crime, and helping being productive members of socity.

One stupid law being broke of having to spend thousand dollars sometimes for just the one person. It hasn't stopped some of these people who came here illegally from working hard enough and then becoming citizens once they saved the money up.

This of course, doesn't apply to those who come here illegally that kill or murder, or break laws that harm others. I really don't see the harm in them coming here illegally if they become productive members. Sometimes become a legal citizen takes years upon years of thousands of dollars, and even then they're likely to still be denied. Or some prick in immagration just doesn't like them and just says no to be a prick.

[jackfaire]

But then, non-Christan groups demanded to be treated the same! On, we have to look at all these other holidays but we also can't call it the Christmas season anymore! We need to call it the holiday season! But we sure as hell have to recognize them as Chaunakah (sp?), Kwanzaa (sp?) etc.

Actually in my area it was all the Christians pushing for this so as to not offend people.

[Kimmik]

Funny as it is I fully admit that I have broken laws, and I faced the consequences for that and why I do my damned not to break laws now... I don't like small cells.

It's bad enough that they are going to have to force themselves to learn English

I am sorry but yes they need to learn the language of where they are going. America only has so many resources available hence why they have a process and a limit on how many at one given time. Living in California, I got use to seeing Driving test, welfare forms, and other government documents in a multitude of foreign languages. This strikes me a fundamentally wrong. When you move to a country you should speak the local language. Not only that but working in a school I saw many times children having to translate for their parents or caregivers. And sometimes there is no way that can translate as they do not have the vocabulary for a word.

My Uncle learned English and his wasn't the best but heck I am a native speaker and there is times that I butcher it. After all English is a hard language to learn.

Life will never be fair.. but I have no problem seeing someone who violates the immigration laws be deported. My Uncle was the same way, all my friends that have immigrated feel the same.

[Plaidman]

Ok. Cool. Since your all for people being fined and being punished for breaking laws, and since you live in california, I'm assuming you never

1: Drove wearing a coat. That's illegal you know?
2: Ever spit? Sorry. Illegal. Unless you do it on a baseball field.
3: Ever use your bathroom with window open? Illegal.
4: Ever wash your car in the street? Boy oh boy is that illegal
5: Ever put any item in the garage? Illegal. Only your car is allowed there. Nothing else. Period.
6: Ever killed a moth under a street light? Illegal.
7: Hope to god you never touched or bothered a butterfly. Thats illegal.
8: Ever carried any food on a street between 11 am and 1pm? ILLEGAL
9: Another fun law, any one that is /ugly/ isn't allowed to walk down any street.
10: Can't give oral sex to wife/husband, girlfriend/boyfriend, friend, whatever. nor recive it. That's illegal
11: Cannot have any more then two cats.
12: Can not fly a kite higher then 10 feet.

Plenty of more. But these are still valid. They are still illegal.

If you proclaim to be 100 percent of law abiding, then you need to follow all laws, not the ones that fit your twisted since of right and wrong. Go ahead and turn yourself in if you did any of the following.


EDIT: You know what? I'm done being nice. If your uncle complaint of the worst unfairness is that people didn't get here legally like he did, he had a real freaking easy way of life. I'm not sure if he has kids or not. Isn't fair for those who can't have kids that he can. Maybe he should be sterlize. That would make it fair then. Hell, it isn't fair that he is male for some people. Make him a woman. That would be fair. It isn't fair he got a job that someone else did everything he could to do the same job, and you have no idea. Maybe that person was far more qualifed and tried far harder then your uncle. Sure isn't fair. Seriously. Your uncle greatest unfairness and most unjustifed is that some poor person trying to make a better life for themselves came here to do so, then your uncle truely is rich and had a great life. Maybe he should stop being a spoilsport and let others have a chance to be nearly as happy as he is.

[draggar]

None of those laws can put many public lives at risk (and I don't want to hear anyone with the whole "well, if a butterfly flaps its wings in Chicago it will cause an earthquake in Japan" mumbo-jumbo).

Illegals crossing the border into the USA can be a serious issue. We commonly see news stories in our papers about some "undocumented" and illegal aliens committing serious crimes (shootings, rapes, murders, robberies, etc..).

You don't hear about moth killers and oral sex fanciers committing murders, robberies, etc.. (yes, oral sex at times could be rape).

At least 3 of the 9-11 hijackers were here illegally.

Here's the results of an investigation of 94 terrorists (including 6 of the 9-11 hijackers):

http://www.cis.org/articles/2005/kephart.html

59 committed immigration fraud.

Let's see how people feel about immigration after these numbers:

Terrorist attacks in the USA (not including domestic terrorism):

CIA shooting Jan 25, 1993 (Al-Qaeda): Single attacker - he was here illegally.
World Trade Center Feb 26, 1993 (Al-Qaeda): 9 of the conspirators were here illegally.
LAX shooting attack - suspect was here illegally

Planned attacks (foiled or stopped):
NYC Subway, August 1, 1997 - 2 (out of 3) were here illegally.
US Millenium Plot (Dec 31, 1999 / Jan 1, 2000) - all 4 charged were here illegally.
(Undated) Brooklyn Bridge attack - only planner was here illegal.
(Undated) Disneyland / MGM Grand in Los Vegas- all 3 charged were here illegal.
Niagara Falls Reservoir - only planner was here illegally
NYC Financial (NYSE, Prudential, etc..) - planner was here illegally
Nashville Jewish Buildings - planner was here illegally

So, those who think it should be easier for anyone to get in - you'd make it easy for these people, too?

[Plaidman]

Right bro. Because every person who comes here is going to be a terrorist.

Not all people want to kill and murder.

You go on saying you don't like people wanting to be treated differently, well, now your going off that a large amount of people here illegally are only going to do terrorist attacks.

What's next for you? Giving a list of crimes based on race in America?

Oh wait, you already did.