The rape culture thread.

[NodmiTheSellout]

I know many, many women who are frustrated with that depiction of pleasure, because statistically, it isn't realistic. My inspiration for saying that came directly from a woman criticizing porn NOT from a feminist standpoint, but from the standpoint of a woman who, well, watches lots of porn. It doesn't take much internet searching at all to find tons of sex-positive women - even many who would scoff at being called a feminist - who say that orgasm just isn't a common product of the kind of sex that such porn portrays, for a woman.

As for the cheapening of the word 'rape' in that way. . .yeah, I should've said "pretty predatory" or something instead, but that's just a. . .I mean, it's the way it rolls off your tongue (or whatever), it's not cheapening the IDEA of rape the way that the other mentioned things do. It's not attacking the concept, it's just using the word in an accurate way that some people think looks weird. I don't think it's the same, but I understand why it's bothersome and will think of how I articulate myself with things like that in the future.

As for asking multiple times. . .this is why I said something to the effect of "ask WHY, don't just continually ASK". There's a difference between, "Let's have sex." "No." "I deserve sex!" "I don't want to." "But it's been so long!" "No." "You'd do it if you loved me!" ". . .*sigh* Fine." and seduction. Seduction usually does involve a "why??" of some shape or form.

[Racket_Man]

here is another stupid example from Aussie Land (sorry FireHeart)

http://www.lemondrop.com/2010/05/05/...n-rape-case%2F

another case of PERCEPTION not actual FACT

[jackfaire]

If rape by emotional blackmail is something that one can be convicted on doesn't that make all emotional blackmail illegal?

[Hobbs]

As for the cheapening of the word 'rape' in that way. . .yeah, I should've said "pretty predatory" or something instead, but that's just a. . .I mean, it's the way it rolls off your tongue (or whatever), it's not cheapening the IDEA of rape the way that the other mentioned things do. It's not attacking the concept, it's just using the word in an accurate way that some people think looks weird. I don't think it's the same, but I understand why it's bothersome and will think of how I articulate myself with things like that in the future.

So it's okay for you to cheapen the word...as long as it achieves your goals, am I interpreting that right? Making up a word like "rapey" cheapens it by making it sound like a nonsense word. It sounds like something Dr. Seuss would say...if he were a pedo, I suppose O_o

[NodmiTheSellout]

. . .it's a word. I didn't make it up, at least, I'm not the first person to type it in the world ever. Cheapening the WORD is different than cheapening the CONCEPT. I'll stop using it because I see why it's bothersome, but it's not inaccurate when speaking of predatory things. Saying you've been "raped" when losing at a video game, or that a tax "rapes" you because you lose ten cents a paycheck. . .that cheapens rape as a concept, not as a word.

If rape by emotional blackmail is something that one can be convicted on doesn't that make all emotional blackmail illegal?

Didn't say it was something someone should be convicted for. By nature, it's difficult to prosecute. But the perpetrator should definitely be held accountable for it, if only in a social way.

[Hobbs]

Didn't say it was something someone should be convicted for. By nature, it's difficult to prosecute. But the perpetrator should definitely be held accountable for it, if only in a social way.

Let's see...how does a society hold a perpetrator accountable? Oh, that's right, a trial. A trial by a jury of his/her peers in which factual evidence is presented to convict/aquit them.

[jackfaire]

.
Didn't say it was something someone should be convicted for. By nature, it's difficult to prosecute. But the perpetrator should definitely be held accountable for it, if only in a social way.

*nods* I can get behind that with any emotional blackmail there is usually a wariness of the person who engages in it and people less likely to trust that person.

[NodmiTheSellout]

Let's see...how does a society hold a perpetrator accountable? Oh, that's right, a trial. A trial by a jury of his/her peers in which factual evidence is presented to convict/aquit them.

I'm talking about getting ostracized by friends, losing the support of family, etc., when I say "in a social way".

[Fryk]

So a true amish shunning then?

So how does losing contact with one's entire support group lead to you being able to change your ways?

[Hobbs]

I think an Amish shunning is just as backwards as the thinking you're combatting, Nodmi.

[NodmiTheSellout]

I think you're trying to get me to be too specific about it. . .I don't think rapists cease to be human beings the moment they rape someone. Friends and family involved with the rapist and people around him should inform him of the nature of his behavior, why it's problematic, why he violated the woman in question with that behavior, etc. etc.. People shouldn't pretend it away, they should try to make him understand, and go to the good ol' shunning only if he refuses to believe he's in the wrong.

[AdminAssistant]

Well, and since we're talking about culture here, it would be helpful if the media didn't excuse that kind of emotional blackmail in sex. I want a Glee episode where the guy is trying to get her in bed, and she says, "NO!", kicks him in the crotch, and moves on.

[McDreidel09]

Friends and family involved with the rapist and people around him should inform him of the nature of his behavior, why it's problematic, why he violated the woman in question with that behavior, etc. etc.. People shouldn't pretend it away, they should try to make him understand, and go to the good ol' shunning only if he refuses to believe he's in the wrong.

Because talking to rapists about what they did will really help. If talking to the rapist helped, then they wouldn't have committed the crime, when their victim said no. Just as anyone who commits a crime, a rapist does not care about the person they hurt. For them, it was a power trip.

My rapist keeps changing his story about what happened. First he said that I didn't say stop. Then he acknowledged that I did tell him to stop, but he continued because I gave the okay for him to continue, which I did not. He was my boyfriend and I was in pain, so I told him to stop. He did not stop. I tried to struggle away and cried and he held me down and told me that I "needed to get used to it."

Do you honestly think sitting down and talking about what he did would really help someone like that?

[NodmiTheSellout]

Probably not, McDreidel09. But I also don't think anyone in this thread would try to justify what happened to you as not being rape. I was basically allowing them that there's such a thing as a rapist who doesn't know how they're hurting their victim. If such a person exists, then logically talking to them might help. Of course, the truth is that, as your example shows, even rapists do not think they are rapists--so their view on what is and isn't rape is not terribly relevant.

[jackfaire]

Well, and since we're talking about culture here, it would be helpful if the media didn't excuse that kind of emotional blackmail in sex. I want a Glee episode where the guy is trying to get her in bed, and she says, "NO!", kicks him in the crotch, and moves on.

I want episodes of tv shows to reveal emotional blackmail is wrong period. How about all the money you waste on family members who "really need it" and if you "reallly loved them" you would just help them out.