Thus a stereotype is reinforced...

[smileyeagle1021]

Seriously, you really need to get the hell out of Utah. Quite a few cities (including Pittsburgh) don't care if you're gay. You simply don't hear of gay bashing in the news--many gay people say they feel pretty safe here.

Exactly, until such time that I have a degree and can get an out of state job (there is no point in throwing away all my education just to get out of this state, because if I leave there is nowhere else I can afford to continue) I will have to base my world view on what part of the world I have seen, which is Utah. And in Utah everything I have said is accurate. In Utah there is exactly 3 groups who don't overall hate gays, those three are other gays, atheists, and liberal democrats... people who don't fall into at least one of those groups will a hell of a lot more times than not be homophobic, racist, or bigoted.

[the_std]

I will have to base my world view on what part of the world I have seen, which is Utah.

Uh, no you don't. I don't live in the States and all I see is the crazy, bonkers, supremely biased and black-and-white news that gets presented (liberals are soppy, gay-loving tree huggers who are gonna spend all our moneyz and republicans are fascist, intolerant war-mongers who hate everyone except themselves) and even I know that that is a complete load of bullshit. Maybe the top three percent are that divided, that extreme, but I know that the majority of your population is not so divided. You happen to live in one of the most extreme parts of it. All you see are extremes, yes, but that doesn't mean that that is all that exists.

Saying that you have to base your world view on what you've seen is willfully ignoring how the rest of your country, hell, how the rest of the world operates. I know you're jaded, but don't let it colour your opinions with the stupidity of your biggest and scariest.

[lordlundar]

I'm sure not *all* Republicans are homophobic hatemongers...

Apparently just the ones with free access to the media.

[HYHYBT]

That's not because of funding; it's just that the funding being so bad lets them get away with it.

No, it's the religious whack-a-doos that don't want science teachers teaching science that they don't agree with.

My point exactly

[BlaqueKatt]

And you just discounted my entire life experience...

and you called me a homophobic hatemonger

Hi I'm Katt and I'm a registered Republican(guess what I'm also an Atheist, hate the death penalty, and gasp have had relationships both men and women)

We're even....

[Talon]

. . . What?
Conservatives are, of course, quick to respond to that by pointing out that "civil unions" offer the same legal rights that marriage does, so gay couples can obtain those benefits without getting married.

About that whole "marriage" vs "civil unions" schtick, I believe Matthew Albie of the short-lived Studio 60 put it best:

There's no way to get to the end of that argument without saying homosexual love is something less than heterosexual love!

[Stormraven]

My response to anyone who wants to claim that 'civil unions' are as good as marriages is to suggest that they annul their marriage and go with a Civil Union instead. If they're not willing to do that, they don't get to claim they're just as good.

[jackfaire]

"Black Schools are just as good as White Schools" *smacks the record player and it skips forward a few decades*

"Civil Unions are just as good as Marriages" Hmmm stupidity it truly is timeless.

[Fryk]

Exactly, Jack. Why doesn't the ideology of Brown v Topeka translate into anything besides black versus white? It seemed pretty universal when I read it.

[BlaqueKatt]

"Civil Unions are just as good as Marriages" Hmmm stupidity it truly is timeless.

appears in france they are considered better than marriage-as in 92% of the people getting "civil unions" are straight couples.....92% of 140,000 in 2008 and only 70,000 marriages performed-but hey France is so behind the rest of the world...I mean it's practically a third world nation right?

[Arcade Man D]

appears in france they are considered better than marriage-as in 92% of the people getting "civil unions" are straight couples.....92% of 140,000 in 2008 and only 70,000 marriages performed-but hey France is so behind the rest of the world...I mean it's practically a third world nation right?

Yes, but in France, a "civil union" is the political term for marriage, which confers all the political and social rights and privileges. Marriage is the term for the religious ceremony.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

appears in france they are considered better than marriage-as in 92% of the people getting "civil unions" are straight couples.....92% of 140,000 in 2008 and only 70,000 marriages performed-but hey France is so behind the rest of the world...I mean it's practically a third world nation right?

Because the laws in two entirely different countries, with different governments and priorities always equal one another, right?

WRONG

[Anthony K. S.]

appears in france they are considered better than marriage-as in 92% of the people getting "civil unions" are straight couples

If civil unions are considered better than marriage in France, then why is it that 1 out of 6 couples who dissolve civil unions do so because they want to get married?

The article you cited indicated that many straight couples who obtain civil unions do so as an intermediate step toward marriage, not as an alternative to marriage altogether.

In any case . . . In France, PCDS contracts do not offer all of the same benefits (such as immigration rights) that marriage does. In the United States, gay couples with civil unions have often encountered difficulty in obtaining the legal benefits that they are supposed to.

Combine that with the fact that in both countries, straight couples get to choose whether to obtain a marriage or a civil union, while gay couples are denied that choice . . .

If my girlfriend and I have access to options and benefits that my gay co-worker and his boyfriend do not have access to, that's discrimination, any way you slice it.

And it's wrong.

[smileyeagle1021]

but hey France is so behind the rest of the world...I mean it's practically a third world nation right?

France is, as many other people mentioned, a different country. Comparing laws in the two countries is meaningless unless the differences in all other related laws are compared as well.
A good first step would be for us to compare what the extra benefits are of marriage in France. In the United States any benefit provided by the federal government to those with marriages is NOT provided to those with civil unions. For that matter, every right of marriage is denied to those who have civil unions in over half the states in the United States. Those states that do have civil unions don't all even offer equivalent state benefits to those who have civil unions (in Nevada a civil union is little more than a piece of paper you can provide to employers who wish to provide partner benefits).
If Civil Unions in the United States even came close to being equivalent to marriage, I would gladly take one... however, as it is that it doesn't even come close, I'll still work for marriage. That is the center of the argument, not what France may or may not offer, not what the United Kingdom may or may not offer, not what Canada may or may not offer, but what the United States does NOT offer.

[Imprl59]

I see no difference between the Republicans and Democrats except for the fact the Republicans are honest about it. In my life I would rather deal with the man who tells me to my face that he doesn't accept my lifestyle than deal with the man who pretends to be my friend. I can debate the honest man and perhaps influence his opinion but I stand no chance with the pretender.


The Democrats are running the show right now. They can do anything they damn well want and the Republicans can't do diddly about it (i.e. healthcare reform). So what exactly are they doing to resolve this gay marriage situation?

Personally I think the church is welcome to keep the word "marriage" but the government should not recognize that union. EVERYONE who wants their partnership recognized by the government should have to have a civil union. No ceremony necessary.... just go fill out the paperwork and be done with it. I don't understand how in this country benefits can be granted to one group of people and denied to another.

Steve B.