Vermont town votes to indict King George as War Criminal

[AFPheonix]

I guess a national igloo wouldn't be too out of line for a country that has Head Smashed In Buffalo Jump

[rahmota]

Seshat: Oh I wasnt saying the technical aspects wouldnt fly. People would probably be able to get used to it enough. I was just saying that the power brokers wouldnt want to go over to a system that breaks the deadlock stranglehold the dems/repubs have over politics.

I vaguely remember hearing somethign about the East Timor thing. I think. But then again I've always been a news junkie and listened to the BBC on the Shortwave and all. Which to say the least is a rather shock comparing how the American news agencies/comapnies cover a story and how the Beeb does it. Kinda highlights the slant in American news.

I do have to agree with Boozy though that as a tourist/international travelor you'd be an ambassedor of sorts for your country. I know when I was planning on goign to Europe I was goign to try and not be as big a redneck I guess, or the ugly tourist or anythgin bad like that. I was goign to try and blend in as much as possible and not make waves or give any appearances of the stereotypical loud ugly american.

I mean heck travelling inside the country here you get people who have no clue about the way thigns are. I've talked to people in the city who actually honest to the gods did not know that chickens laid eggs. Look at some of the culture shock issues we've had on CS and here with me being rather rural hitting the wall of urbanized attitudes or vice versa. I've had discussions with people who acted like they didnt think we had inside plumbing and still used oil lamps this far away from the city. I was joking with someone I used to work with that had never been outside the city before about how cold it gets goign to the outhouse and he had to have explained to him WHAT an outhouse was. Yes he was a teenager but still.

Anyhow anyway you look at it things are getting uglier in the states arn't they?

[IDrinkaRum]

This is why I would support Communism ("true" communism that was foreseen by Marx and not what was put into effect by the Bolsheviks).

If you've read the Communist Manifesto (which I have done for fun & for school), you would know that Marx actually advocated a society with no government.

Yes, that's right - no government. Sure, at the beginning, there would be a skeletal government. It would set up the way the society would run. (ex. There's going to be "x" number of farmers, "x" number of businesses, "x" number of shoes people can own at any given time, whatever).

Once the society has started to settle down and function in the way it's supposed to be (you do what you can and take what you need), the skeletal government will start to break down. Marx doesn't go into detail as to when this pivotal part of the society just collectively says "Hey! We don't need the stinking government to tell us what to do now that we know what we're supposed to do" and the government is no more.

It's a nice & simple concept. We have a society, in peace and tranquility surviving without a government. Everyone is equal. (Marx's father was Jewish who converted to Lutherinism, but Marx himself didn't believe in God). Sure Marx didn't believe in God, but also, people use religion to make themselves better than the next person (You don't believe in how to worship God my way? You're inferior!).

No government telling us what to do, we'd probably have to go into a barter system, but we'd figure it out eventually.

(FTR, I was raised in a very conservative Republican household. My father didn't disown me when I went to the "dark side", i.e., I became a Liberal Democrat, but my father has been ribbing me ever since )

As for communism being a good idea? I say it in half-jest, but it's something to think about. At least read the Communist Manifesto and see what Marx's ideas really were.

[Seshat]

I apologise: I should have mentioned that yes, I only did the 'kangaroo-drawn carriages' thing to people who had shown that they can take a joke, and I did set people straight.

It was much more common for me to show people our $10 note, and explain who each person on the note is, and show the ones with good eyesight the first stanza of 'Man from Snowy River' in micro-printing on the note. We'd do a compare-and-contrast on the currencies, then segue into other similarities and differences.

The point of the kangaroo-drawn carriages was shared humour with people who seemed to enjoy that sort of joke; not humour at the expense of 'ignorant Americans'. I apologise for not making that clear, and I understand that with the US being such a world power right now, it's vastly more important for the average Australian to know about the US, than for the average American to know much about Australia.

[rahmota]

Drinkarum. I firmly agree that true communism, not socialism like the soviets practiced is a much more sensible approach to resource distibution and management. From each according to their ability to each according to their needs.

Unfortunately human nature has not evolved past the gimmmie gimmie greedy year old stage where people want to have it all and want it all right now. At least for the most part and expecially herre in america. Where if you even mentino you support communism you get yelled at oppressed, banned from discussion groups (the root cause of the only time I have ever been banned from a discussion board was when i came out in full support of communism and against capitalism on a board controlled by rabid republican pro free market capitalists who abused their moderatorial powers to remove me and keep their nice clean circle jerk of back patting solid.) or otherwise treated like a evil moron.
and where you suggest it in jest I suggest it for real. that or a modified and codified version that is weighted towards making certain there is a level playing field with the least amount of laws and rules to protect and defend the individual and increased personal responsibility. But thats not gonna happen either is it.

I've read the Communist Manifesto and used it in several classes way back in college for papers. Sociology class was okay but when i did the paper for economics class and supported communism as a resource management method the professor gave me an F for not realizing that anythign other than free market capitalism was good and useful and would succeed.....

Another good book is To Us the Living by Heinlein where he talks about the Social Credit form of resource distribution.

and the barter system does still work. The amsh community I am familiar with around here uses it for purely internal transactions. They have to take the English money to deal with our society but they still keep to themselves very much.

Seshat: speaking of money you guys have cool money. Its made out of the same stuff it feels like that the kids halloween costumes are made from. Not to mention its like having an art gallery in your wallet. My friend in the navy came back with a bunch of it.

american money seems so dull by comparison. No wonder we have the easiest counterfeited money out there.

[AFPheonix]

I think it's important for Americans to at least know what's going on in allied and neighboring countries, but I don't know about anyone else, but after awhile my brain gets full trying to keep track of all the weird shit going down in places like Eitreia, Eithiopia, Somalia, Kenya, Venezuela, etc. in between stuff going on in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Palestine.
I just get information overload.

[Boozy]

I just get information overload.

Everyone does. Africa is an uphill battle to learn about. It doesn't help that the moment you learn the name of one leader, he's been overthrown and replaced with another.

Personally, I think Americans should probably know the basics about what's going on in Iraq, Afghanistan, Canada, Mexico, the UK, Saudi Arabia, and China.

Russia, Venezuela, and Japan if one is feeling ambitious.

Not a comprehensive list by any means, but these are at least the countries whose fortunes are so closely tied to the US right now that we are all in a close symbiotic relationship.

[Seshat]

It's interesting that Australia/New Zealand didn't make it to the list. I have some theories about why, but I'd be interested in your reason.

[Boozy]

I mostly didn't add Australia and New Zealand because I was trying to keep the list short.

If I were to continue adding to the list, I'd probably add Germany, South Korea, and France before Australia and N.Z. They are three of America's largest trading partners, and economic powerhouses. India might make the list for that reason as well.

Australia and New Zealand are not one of the US top ten trading partners.

[AFPheonix]

I am aware that you just ditched John Howard and got a new PM, for what it's worth

Regarding France, I heard an interesting tidbit on NPR yesterday about how they were planning on helping to bring nuclear power plants to North Africa, including Libya. I don't know if that's such a good idea or not, handing Ghaddafi a chance to get in and get potential access to uranium bits. Yeah yeah, they'd have it all protected and shit, but I trust that guy about as far as I can throw him.


The sad part is, I'm probably in one of the higher tiers of informed Americans out there. I know there's lots of people like my husband who don't enjoy watching topical humor stuff with me because they don't get the jokes.
For example, he got me the full DVD set of "Not the 9 O'Clock News", but he didn't know who Margaret Thatcher was, so he didn't get those jokes. I didn't get them all when they pertained to other MPs and whatnot from the 80's, but still. I had to explain to him who Tony Blair was, too. (PM at the time, yes I know it's currently Gordon Brown) I'm sure he's not alone.

[rahmota]

AFP: I know what you mean. I'll be talking to people about stuff and have to doubleback and explain who or what somethign is and then try and catch up where I was while that knowledge is still filtering in.. I swear I need to get subtitles when discussing anythign beyond entertainment or the local sphere of attention of most people.

[Seshat]

That's pretty much what I thought. We're a small market (between us, we probably have approximately the same number of people as New York State), and our main importance to the US is our strategic location, and the fact that we're a friendly, safe harbour/airfield/whatever.

AFPhoenix: I'm impressed.

[IDrinkaRum]

2 Vermont Towns vote to arrest Bush & Cheney

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080305/...ics_vermont_dc

[tropicsgoddess]

(Rahmota: The link's not working for me...I had to Google it.)

The United States is likely guilty of the following breaches of the Geneva Convention:

- Torture or inhumane treatment (Abu Ghraib, possibly Guantanamo Bay)
- Depriving a prisoner of war of a fair trial (Guantanamo Bay)
- Unlawful deportation, confinement or transfer (again, Gitmo)

(It is no crime to invade a sovereign nation under false pretenses of self-defense, although perhaps it should be.)

But here's what I find really interesting about this story: The United States is a democracy. President Bush was legitimately elected (once, anyways ).

It was so ironic that GWB happened to win the election on the one swing state (Florida) that his brother Jeb was the Governor and that they refused to recount the ballots that would've made Al Gore the winner back in the 2000 presidential election. *cough cough RIGGED!*

I don't know how just Vermont, just one state would try to indict George W. Bush for his crimes. I hope that man gets indicted for all the lies,scandals,torture that has been going on under his administration.

[Amethyst Hunter]

I hope that man gets indicted for all the lies,scandals,torture that has been going on under his administration.

Not just him - the ENTIRE assministration needs to rot in hardcore prison for all the bullshit they've done.

It's a very sad thing when one is *ashamed* to call oneself a native of a country when that country's so-called "leaders" have repeatedly proven themselves to be amoral scumsucking fuckwitted and downright evil assholes. Not for nothing was there a website called "We're Sorry" that cropped up immediately after 2004.