Kids Sent Home for Wearing USA Stuff on Cinco de Mayo

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Yeah, they can. It's not the symbol that matters, it's the context of the symbol. And. . .it's a holiday. I'm sure they'd encourage American patriotism on July 4th if school was open then (I'm assuming it's not, anyway).

So, would they kick out students who wore the Mexican flag on the 4th of July?

I don't know about anyone else, but my schools were more or less always open on the 4th (with the exception of a few 'teacher work days' that landed there either by chance or opportune design)

[NodmiTheSellout]

If a group of Mexican students wore shirts with Mexican flags on them on July 4th, in the same manner as happened here, I would support asking them to change/turn them inside out, yes (and send them home if they refuse).

As for school being open on the fourth, eh. I graduated five years ago and my memory is abysmal, so I just assumed it was vacation.

[Ghel]

As far as I can see, this isn't a free speech issue so much as a respect issue.

We can pretty well assume that all the students knew that there would be Cinco de Mayo celebrations going on at the school that day. We can assume that the American flag-wearing students knew that when they got dressed that morning. Whatever their reasons for wearing what they did, they were being disrespectful towards the students who were celebrating their Mexican heritage.

If we could expect teenagers to hold their tempers and respect each others' rights to free speech, then what anybody wore that day wouldn't be an issue. But teenagers are little balls of emotion, and teenage boys tend to let that out by punching each other in the nose. So it's understandable that the principal and vice principal took steps to avoid having a fight break out.

[Fryk]

To Nodmi: I don't think you can base a school dress code around context.

To Ghel: The problem is, their steps to avoid a fight (by way of someone else having their wittle feelings hurt, NOT an excuse for a fight) was to deprive other students of the opportunity for education.

[Greenday]

To Ghel: The problem is, their steps to avoid a fight (by way of someone else having their wittle feelings hurt, NOT an excuse for a fight) was to deprive other students of the opportunity for education.

That and it IS a freedom of expression issue.

[Ghel]

To Ghel: The problem is, their steps to avoid a fight (by way of someone else having their wittle feelings hurt, NOT an excuse for a fight) was to deprive other students of the opportunity for education.

No, the school's response was to ask the American flag-wearing students to turn their shirts inside out. Which, to me, seems reasonable, especially if it was prefaced with an explanation like "We're worried about other students getting upset with what you chose to wear today. They might think it's disrespectful and decide to start a fight over it." When the students refused, they were being disrespectful not only to their fellow students, but to the faculty as well.

There are, and should be, self-imposed limits on the freedom of expression. We choose to follow dress codes at school and work in order to make teachers, students, coworkers, and customers more comfortable. Deliberately wearing something that makes others uncomfortable, and refusing to change when it's explained to you, is rude.

[NodmiTheSellout]

You can base it around context, though, because most forbid "offensive material" or something like that. Which is contextual.

[Fryk]

That's also a matter of opinion. I personally think offensive material is offensive no matter what the circumstances are. I'm speaking, of course about the MATERIAL, not the spirit behind it. The spirit of it is expression, which is a little more hairy to try and forbid.

And to Ghel, I happen to think that sitting the kids down, and explainng that you were worried about a fight was not a bad idea. However, if they decided fater that that they still wanted to wear the shirt, how is that disrespect to the fcaulty? Because they said "no"? No is not disrespect.

[wolfie]

Why couldn't the school have taken the sneaky approach? According to this site,

"The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, fireman, policeman and members of patriotic organizations."

It seems to me that a representation of the U.S. flag on a T-shirt would fall under this category, so the school administration could legitimately send those kids home for showing disrespect - to the U.S. flag.

[daleduke17]

It seems to me that a representation of the U.S. flag on a T-shirt would fall under this category, so the school administration could legitimately send those kids home for showing disrespect - to the U.S. flag.

Then the school wouldn't have been showing how "diverse" they are or how "sensitive" they are to the other students "feelings". You know, the new way schools operate. They don't fail kids anymore or base anything on rules, because of hurting someone's feelings.

[Ghel]

And to Ghel, I happen to think that sitting the kids down, and explainng that you were worried about a fight was not a bad idea. However, if they decided fater that that they still wanted to wear the shirt, how is that disrespect to the fcaulty? Because they said "no"? No is not disrespect.

See my above comments about self-imposed limits on freedom of expression.

[Red Panda]

Can anybody explain how some students wearing American flags and not doing anything else disruptive prevented Mexican students from being proud of their heritage?

The trouble with this situation is that the students who were unfairly punished were not in any way interfering with Cinco dey Mayo. You can celebrate Mexico even with the reminder that other nations exist.

[NodmiTheSellout]

Because many did it, to send a message--your American pride is more important than your Mexican pride, and you damn well better remember that on the single day of the year set aside for said Mexican pride. I'm not gonna speak for other people, and something like that would distract me only as much to throw them a hearty "Cute, you assholes," but I'm also a mutt without much national pride of any nature, so I can't really identify with how it might disrupt their day.

[Fryk]

MANY didn't do it. I thought it was three kids.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Also, how is it a message of "American pride is better"? There's no reason to believe that's what the intention was. Saying that American pride is important =/= shitting on pride of heritage. Just because they're disagreeing doesn't mean they're the ultimate assholes.