No Raw Milk Sales In WI

[blas87]

The only smart thing that idiot Governor Doyle has ever done. He vetoed the bill that was being proposed, to allow the sales of raw milk in the state of Wisconsin, any amount anywhere in Wisconsin.

Any feelings?

[protege]

Given the potential for disease (non-pulmonary tuberculosis, typhoid, and salmonella) present in raw milk...I'm not exactly sure why you'd *want* to drink it. Unless, you're willing to be a guinea pig for a health study?

[Greenday]

Someone was telling me that this is how it's sold in most other nations. Seeing as I don't have any friends from other countries, I'd rather hear that from people in other countries instead of Americans that can't stand the government doing anything to impose on "rights".

As for him vetoing it, good. You'd have to be stupid to drink raw milk.

[blas87]

I don't think it imposes on rights at all. It's not like you can't get raw milk from a farmer you're related to, they are just not allowed to sell it in mass quantities or at stores.

It may test better (yes, I have drank it before, I come from a family of farmers on one side), but it is so full of bacteria and the thought of it is rather gross.

The advocates that were screaming to get the bill passed were arguing the better taste and the fact that pasteurizing it gets rid of all the "good stuff".

[BlaqueKatt]

I'm not exactly sure why you'd *want* to drink it. Unless, you're willing to be a guinea pig for a health study?

people claim "tons of nutrients are lost through pasteurization*" these are usually the same people, that believe pharmaceuticals are a scam, and that the government pushes for no raw milk so they stay sick(they also have never seen non-pulmonary TB and what it can do to a person)

they also claim what's needed today is a return to humane, non-toxic, pasture-based dairying and small-scale traditional processing-in other words...only people with money to pay(supply will go way down this way-can't ship something that goes bad in a few days)for milk as a luxury item will have access to it.

*I have actually heard a claim that it cures any form of cancer-yup because as we all know from biology class cow antibodies present in milk will survive digestion and live to attack only human cancer cells

one of the main people pushing for raw milk actually went back to find a purported medical journal article from 1938 to support his cause...because obviously nothing has changed in science since 1938...

this article claims sour raw milk is "good for you" and easily digestible, has a laxative effect.....(um yeah it's called food bourne illness)

[blas87]

You said it much better than I could have, Katt. Hats off to you!

[Stormraven]

Well, some of it depends on the type of pasteurizing. (Paraphrased from Alton Brown) Slow is high enough to kill bacteria, but needs about twenty minutes. Fast is about 90 seconds, but really does a number on taste and the like.

Alton made it sound like Fast was the default, but from other fora I've frequented, I get the impression that slow is the standard in the US.

As for the selling of Raw Milk? As long as the pasteurized versions are available, and everyone who wants to buy the raw is aware that it's on their own liability, I don't have a problem with it.

[ThePhoneGoddess]

The quality and danger of raw milk depends entirely on how it's produced. It simply cannot be mass produced in the same quantities as pasteurized milk. It has to be done in small quantities by people who understand what they're doing, which is why it is more expensive, and harder to find here.

It is produced and drank fresh and raw in many parts of the world on a constant daily basis, but not really in the states, due to how our food industries are structured. In my experience, it's drank that way in rural India, rural Europe and parts of rural Africa. In these places it is commonly drank so fresh it is still warm from the cow (or goat). That's how I had it in Belgium and it was wonderful. The adults laughed at me, because super fresh, warm, raw milk like that is considered a drink for children---most of the adults get the nutrients by eating plenty of the raw milk cheeses that are produced all over Europe. Raw donkey milk is also really popular in Europe for its high nutritional content. I have even encountered a raw milk vending machine in France!

I drink several glasses of it every day, as I find it helps with my allergies. But I'm very particular about who I get it from. I'm lucky, Washington is one of the only states that actually regulates raw milk so it can be sold retail safely. I am the delivery driver for a co-op of about 70 families who get it from a raw milk dairy in Washington on a weekly basis. We're certainly not stupid, we're just alarmed by the incredible amount of processing that foods go through in the states before people consider them 'safe'. Milk is by far the most processed, refined food in a typical American grocery store, and that's saying something!

I don't know about the WI law, as I don't know what the wording was. Was it decriminalizing all forms of raw milk sales, or was it attempting to establish some kind of regulation? Did it address cow sharing, or direct farm-to-consumer sales? I'd be against completely opening it up with no regulation, as the potential for some yahoo deciding to make bathtub fromage for profit would be too great. I do think it should be allowed to be regulated and sold as a luxury food for those who want it.

It'd be nice, though, if we were actually able to get real, authentic fromage au lait cru in this country. The crap that passes for 'brie' here makes me want to cry.

[BlaqueKatt]

I drink several glasses of it every day, as I find it helps with my allergies.

that would be from the cortisone effect of the butterfat-which is removed during processing(fat free milk has no butterfat) and also "blended in" during homogenizing-it's not the pasteurization.
Whole milk or buttermilk would more than likely have the same effect even if pasteurized. My grandmother drank pasteurized buttermilk for her allergies and arthritis-worked, because of the butterfat.


The only person claiming pasteurization "kills the butterfat" is Weston A Price-this man also says that milk becomes "rotten" after being pasteurized, and that "dead foods can't support life"-he is a total raw food activist-he doesn't think anything should be cooked ever....and that humans should only eat raw vegetables and fruits. At best he's a Luddite, at worst a total crackpot.

He also claims that in the early 1900's doctors would go months or years without seeing any type of cancer, diabetes, or heart problems, and now since milk started being pasteurized a doctor can't go a week without seeing it-in other words he's blaming pasteurization of milk for the increase in these health issues-because as we all know again, that's the only thing about daily life that has changed in the last century.

[fireheart17]

Well, some of it depends on the type of pasteurizing. (Paraphrased from Alton Brown) Slow is high enough to kill bacteria, but needs about twenty minutes. Fast is about 90 seconds, but really does a number on taste and the like.

As for the selling of Raw Milk? As long as the pasteurized versions are available, and everyone who wants to buy the raw is aware that it's on their own liability, I don't have a problem with it.

I think Australia's the same. Slow pasteurization.

As for the selling, apparaently in Australia some people participate in "cow sharing" where they basically get all the milk either straight from the cow, or straight from the farmer prior to pasteurization/homogenization.

Hope none of those people are pregnant-unpasteurized milk can contain listeriosis.

[Kimmik]

I actually grew up on raw milk... We would get a huge bucket from a neighbor.. skim the cream and then drink the milk.. god was it good. How ever now, now I dont touch it as I havent had it since childhood and pasteurization doesnt harm the milk... how ever I prefer to try and get just pasteurized when I can. I dont like my milk having things added.

I understand why it was done.. but I believe that people shouldn't need to have those choices made by the Government but I will leave it at that as not to derail.

I will say that I am for Pasturization as now we are killing ourselves with the anti bac items and the filtration systems etc.. so Unlike 30 20 years ago... what our bodies can fight off is different.

Anyhoo those are the random thoughts I have.. hope it makes since LOL

[BlaqueKatt]

but I believe that people shouldn't need to have those choices made by the Government but I will leave it at that as not to derail.

when Joe-bob's decision to drink raw milk and contract bovine non-pulmonary tuberculosis-it does become a government decision-it affects other people than just Joe-bob-it becomes a public health issue which is why the choice was made by the government-they don't want Joe-bob starting an epidemic.

[Boozy]

they don't want Joe-bob starting an epidemic.

Exactly. I realize people don't want the government making decisions for them, but too often people have no clue how their decisions could affect others. The government has a responsibility to step in when someone starts doing something that endangers the general public. I depend on my government to step in.

[linguist]

T
It'd be nice, though, if we were actually able to get real, authentic fromage au lait cru in this country. The crap that passes for 'brie' here makes me want to cry.

you can find authentic raw milk cheeses here, just not young ones. the law says that any raw milk cheese must be aged 60 days or more. as for brie, i totally agree. the "brie" made for export to america is bland and tasteless compared to it true raw milk counterpart. although, if you can find it look for one called delice de bourgogne. i sell it in my shop, and it's the closest i've found here to the brie i had in france.

as for the law in the op, this is going to have a detrimental effect on wisconsin's artisinal cheese industry. raw milk is not only sold for drinking, and easily half of the artisan and farmstead cheeses i sell in my shop from wisconsin are made from raw milk.

[Kimmik]

But Raw milk isnt the only way that Bovine TB can be transmitted. In Michigan it has been found in the white tail population, so should Michigan ban hunting because it is possible that a human may come into contact with an infected animal?

But as I said I am not against pasteurization especially in today's world.
But from this site

Bovine tuberculosis is a zoonotic disease, meaning humans can be infected by exposure to affected animals. As the prevalence of bovine TB has decreased in the U.S. and pasteurization has become routine, fewer infections are traced to drinking milk. However, humans can still become infected by drinking raw milk or eating unpasteurized cheese from TB–infected animals.

Bovine tuberculosis does not threaten the quality and safety of milk and meat products produced in California. Almost all milk sold in California is pasteurized, which destroys organisms that could be harmful to humans, including tuberculosis organisms. The state’s two raw milk dairies are regularly tested for tuberculosis. All cattle processed for meat are inspected for signs of tuberculosis infection and rejected for consumption if they show signs of the disease.

A few cases of airborne infection continue to occur among meat industry and slaughterhouse workers, in regions where the infection remains prevalent in cattle, including Mexico. Additionally, humans can also transmit disease back to cattle; unlike M. tuberculosis, however, it is rare that M. bovis is spread from human–to–human.