Need I say more...

[smileyeagle1021]

http://www.hrcbackstory.org/2010/06/...n-is-politics/

Yup, for those of you who doubted me about why I say you can't be a republican and in favor of Equality (read into that a good person, if you wish), I give you the esteemed Sen. Hatch of Utah proving my point.

[KnitShoni]

Once again, thank you for painting us all with the same brush.

[HYHYBT]

Weird, I'd have *sworn* I'd replied to this thread already...

"Republican" covers a lot of ground. They're not *all* like Hatch, and especially, not all Republican *voters* are like that. One of the problems with our party system is that you almost cannot be for one thing without also being for a particular side on any number of unrelated issues as well. There *are* Republicans who are in favor of gay marriage and so forth (though Republican *candidates* willing to take that position officially are scarce) and there are Democrats who are as opposed as anyone. So it's a matter of prioritizing, and voting for the one who supports your views on whatever you think is most important, and letting the rest go.

[smileyeagle1021]

Once again, thank you for painting us all with the same brush.

Show me one Republican who has had a positive impact on my life (as far as equality is concerned) and I'll stop painting all republicans with the same brush, until then, you have to accept that being Republican means you will be grouped with those who support hatred and discrimination.

[KnitShoni]

Do I also have to accept being Black means being ignorant, uneducated, criminal or drug-addicted? Do you have to accept being gay means being immoral, un-godly, lacking self-control, or wanting to hit on every man in sight? Are you white? Do you accept being white means you're racist, imperialist, and having an undeserved superiority complex? Haven't we discussed that not all people in any certain group are like those who happen to be the most visible?

Also, many Democrats where I live hold the same views as the Republicans you loathe. Should I tar ALL Democrats with the same brush, as well? Hatch doesn't represent me. Do not infer that I'm racist/homophobic/against equality for being Republican just because the ones where you live suck. I didn't choose where you live, and I didn't vote that jackass into office.

[protege]

I didn't choose where you live, and I didn't vote that jackass into office.

...and apparently since Smiley lives in Utah...he now has to accept that he voted that jackass into office. Oh wait, he claimed that he didn't vote for him. Yet, the guy still got elected. Aren't generalizations a bitch?

[Ree]

Show me one Republican who has had a positive impact on my life (as far as equality is concerned) and I'll stop painting all republicans with the same brush

OMG, smiley.
Do you ever stop to listen to yourself and your hypocritical stance against certain groups?

I have sat back quietly allowing you to lump me, as a Catholic and Christian in with all who become a target of your venom because of a perception that because some do, then that means all do when it comes to persecution of gays.

Now, you're doing the same thing with Republicans because of the actions of some.

until then, you have to accept that being Republican means you will be grouped with those who support hatred and discrimination.

Just as you will have to accept being grouped with the type of people described by KnitShoni, who are often mistakenly associated with the gay lifestyle - the "immoral, un-godly, lacking self-control, or wanting to hit on every man in sight" kind of people.

As protege says, ain't generalizations a bitch?

[KnitShoni]

...and apparently since Smiley lives in Utah...he now has to accept that he voted that jackass into office. Oh wait, he claimed that he didn't vote for him. Yet, the guy still got elected. Aren't generalizations a bitch?

I don't remember saying he voted the man into office. I said I DIDN'T. Please don't accuse me of generalizing if you're going to misconstrue something I've said.

But, until either he moves from Utah or that man is no longer a senator, Smiley will have to accept that he IS a senator for Utah.

[Ree]

Please don't accuse me of generalizing if you're going to misconstrue something I've said.

I think you've misconstrued protege's point.
I don't think it was directed at you.

[Greenday]

I think you've misconstrued protege's point.
I don't think it was directed at you.

Eh, I read it the same way as KnitShoni did.

Smiley, I love you bud, but this is getting out of hand. Not every Republican/Christian is some radical who wants every gay wiped off the face of the Earth. We can't control the fact that you happen to live in one of the few regions of the country where people actually act like that. Living 22 years in New Jersey/Pennsylvania, I've never heard one person go that far against gays. Almost every church I've visited openly welcomes gays. While most Republicans I know aren't a fan of homosexuality, they know it isn't their business so they don't actively oppose it.

Your generalizations based off a very small minority are getting pretty ridiculous.

[Ree]

Eh, I read it the same way as KnitShoni did.

I guess I read it differently because I knew KnitShoni wasn't the one making generalizations. *shrug*

I read it to say that smiley claims he didn't vote for the guy, but he got elected, so, based on the flawed logic that smiley uses, if he got elected, then smiley must have voted for him.

Of course, that's unless protege wants to chime in, and then, if I am wrong, I will stand corrected.

[BlaqueKatt]

Show me one Republican who has had a positive impact on my life (as far as equality is concerned)

Ronald Regan-helped defeat The Briggs Initiative.

The Briggs Initiative was the first statewide electoral victory for proponents of gay rights. Historian David Johnson argues that it was "the greatest electoral victory yet of the burgeoning gay rights movement." Had Briggs passed in California, similar proposals would have been introduced around the nation.


If that's not enough I'll give you four more:

In June 2003, the United States Supreme Court issued an historic ruling in the case of Lawrence v. Texas. Justices struck down all anti-sodomy laws around the nation. Four of the six justices in the majority were Republican.

yup striking down sodomy laws didn't have a positive impact....I guess those Republican judges put there by Republicans had no impact in equality. And preventing further discriminatory laws did nothing either.

until then, you have to accept that being Republican means you will be grouped with those who support hatred and discrimination.

and no I don't have to accept that your bigoted OPINION is fact because it isn't-just because you keep spouting your vitriol and hate does not make it true. It makes you just as bad if not worse than those you hate. You are supporting hatred and discrimination against Catholics, Mormons, and Republicans based on a very small minority, just as they are-how is your hate more valid than theirs? Hint: it isn't, neither one is right, both sides lose-but they can point to people like you and justify their "fear", then you point to them and do the same-it's a circular escalation and it's pointless-and you are to blinded by hate to see it.

[protege]

I think you've misconstrued protege's point.
I don't think it was directed at you.

...and I apologize for that. I was simply using Smiley's logic against him. I mean, he tends to think that the individual = the whole group. He wants to blame Republicans (and others) for all the evil in the world. So, why shouldn't I be allowed to blame all Utah residents for voting such 'evil' into power? Yeah, I know it's flawed, but since I'm squarely in the middle of all 3 of the groups he claims to hate--Republicans, Christians (I was raised Catholic, but no longer practice), and conservative--I think it's only fair that I should be able to turn the tables now and then...especially since I do not have a reason to hate him.

[KnitShoni]

...and I apologize for that. I was simply using Smiley's logic against him. I mean, he tends to think that the individual = the whole group. He wants to blame Republicans (and others) for all the evil in the world. So, why shouldn't I be allowed to blame all Utah residents for voting such 'evil' into power? Yeah, I know it's flawed, but since I'm squarely in the middle of all 3 of the groups he claims to hate--Republicans, Christians (I was raised Catholic, but no longer practice), and conservative--I think it's only fair that I should be able to turn the tables now and then...especially since I do not have a reason to hate him.

Ah. Ok, I apologize. I was confused.

[Hobbs]

and no I don't have to accept that your bigoted OPINION is fact because it isn't-just because you keep spouting your vitriol and hate does not make it true. It makes you just as bad if not worse than those you hate. You are supporting hatred and discrimination against Catholics, Mormons, and Republicans based on a very small minority, just as they are-how is your hate more valid than theirs? Hint: it isn't, neither one is right, both sides lose-but they can point to people like you and justify their "fear", then you point to them and do the same-it's a circular escalation and it's pointless-and you are to blinded by hate to see it.

I second this wholeheartedly. As a favorite song of mine says:

Clench your fists and grit your teeth,
save forgiveness for the weak.
Let your bitterness consume,
let the salt rub in your wounds.
You have saved up all your spite,
stoked the flame that keeps the fight,
it's so hard to be objective,
when your reason is defective.