Born in the US but denied citizenship?

[Hobbs]

Its so the illegals know that if they have a child in America they run the risk of never seeing it again. Make being an illegal even more undesirable

That's illegal and against even the faintest hint of common moral decency.

HYHYBT is right. It's cruel solely for the purpose of being cruel.

[Greenday]

I'd suggest watching Starship Troopers to find out one alternative. That's what this whole argument reminds me of - you gain citizenship by serving in the military.

Rapscallion

Hey, someone caught on. That's actually the basis of my ideas.

Legal immigrants pay those, too. So why should they pay extra after they already payed a huge amount going through the legal immigration process?

I go to a school in Pennsylvania, but because I'm from New Jersey, I pay more. Why shouldn't being a foreigner be similar?

I just don't get it. What happened to our country's compassion? In the past, we have taken in millions of refugees and immigrants from other countries. But now, it's "no vacancy"?

People start to actually understand that we don't have limitless resources to take care of every single person in the world who wants free help.

[Kimmik]

I go to a school in Pennsylvania, but because I'm from New Jersey, I pay more. Why shouldn't being a foreigner be similar?

Actually many who come here to go to school pay higher fees as well. For example Rutgers
$44,512.50 for an international student
$22,262 for a resident of NJ
$33,172 for a Non NJ resident

Legal Immigrants and refuge pay the Non Resident fee

So they do pay more Out of every state I have lived in.. Foreign students who are either here on a student visa or green card pay more for their education.

why not work to change the Law to a child takes their citizenship from their parents. Ie to get citizenship one of your parents must be a citizen. And in the case where it is the father that is the only legal resident require testing so that you dont have a scam. IE pay me to say Im the daddy

[Fryk]

Ok, so I don't get the extra rights that cityizens do if I don't pass the test or serve. I am assuming, then, that I would not be paying taxes on those benefits that I do not enjoy?

[Skelly]

I'd suggest watching Starship Troopers to find out one alternative. That's what this whole argument reminds me of - you gain citizenship by serving in the military.

Rapscallion

Not only the military - they were required to find a spot for anyone who wanted to serve. Blind person in a wheel chair rolls in, and they had to find something for him/her to do, even if it meant (paraphrasing) "counting the legs of centipedes by touch".

Oh, and in my opinion, the movie is fucking horrible. Novel is way better.

[Dips]

I'd suggest watching Starship Troopers to find out one alternative. That's what this whole argument reminds me of - you gain citizenship by serving in the military.

I'm not familiar with Starship Troopers. Mind filling me in?

[Red Panda]

Ok, so I don't get the extra rights that cityizens do if I don't pass the test or serve. I am assuming, then, that I would not be paying taxes on those benefits that I do not enjoy?

You should still have to pay the taxes. Assuming the Starship Troopers model of everybody who volunteers for the military has to be found a spot you have no excuse to go that route. Lazy people don't get benefits.

[Skelly]

I'm not familiar with Starship Troopers. Mind filling me in?

In a not too distant future, you gain a full citizenship by serving in the military, or any other volunteer federal service for 2 years. Only full citizens (those honorably discharged from any of those services) can vote and be elected to public office (everyone else has full rights otherwise though, everything from freedom of speach, assembly, everything). Been some time since I read it, but from what I remember of the book, the system arose after the fall of 20th century western democracy, when those who organized society again were veterans, and the only ones they trusted fully were other veterans. The book is very much a political and social essay, like a lot of Heinlein's writings. There's also some about the war, gratitious use of awesome power armor, more political & social commentary and such.

The overall theme of the book is that social responsibility requires being prepared to make individual sacrifice. Heinlein's Terran Federation is a limited democracy with aspects of a meritocracy based on willingness to sacrifice in the common interest.

Regarding service:

"But if you want to serve and I can't talk you out of it, then we have to take you, because that's your constitutional right. It says that everybody, male or female, should have his born right to pay his service and assume full citizenship -- but the facts are that we are getting hard pushed to find things for all the volunteers to do that aren't just glorified KP. You can't all be real military men; we don't need that many and most of the volunteers aren't number-one soldier material anyhow...[W]e've had to think up a whole list of dirty, nasty, dangerous jobs that will...at the very least make them remember for the rest of their lives that their citizenship is valuable to them because they've paid a high price for it...A term of service is...either real military service, rough and dangerous even in peacetime...or a most unreasonable facsimile thereof."
# Fleet Sergeant Ho, Pages 29-30
# Attempting to dissuade Juan Rico and Carl from enlisting.

Oh, and the movie is bloody awful. Book is good.

[daleduke17]

I just don't get it. What happened to our country's compassion? In the past, we have taken in millions of refugees and immigrants from other countries. But now, it's "no vacancy"? We are so concerned about our precious tax dollars that we won't let in a child because of the legal status of the parents? Ridiculous. If a couple comes to America to give birth, why not say to them at the hospital, "Okay, this child is technically a United States citizen, so now we will get you started on the path to becoming citizens. That way you can all live here together. If you don't want to do that, we will escort you back to the border." But I guess compassion and common sense don't mix with nationalism and xenophobia.

If the parents come here legally, then I'm cool with it. If the parents are here ILLEGALLY, fuck them. What is your problem with protecting legal citizens from our system being overburdened by a bunch of people who have no rights to be here. Why don't you go cross the border into Mexico illegally and see how far "compassion" gets you.

[Fryk]

Only full citizens (those honorably discharged from any of those services) can vote and be elected to public office (everyone else has full rights otherwise though, everything from freedom of speach, assembly, everything)....

*ker-snippity!*

Oh, and the movie is bloody awful. Book is good.

Yeah, in the movie, you couldn't even have children if you weren't a citizen.

[infinitemonkies]

Quick question: If an American citizen has a child with a non-citizen, in another country, and the parentage is not in question, is that child entitled to U.S. citizenship? (I'm thinking specifically of troops stationed overseas who have fathered a child with a local)
Note that I'm asking for the legal answer, not opinions.



Second question: Quote from the articled refered to in OP:

" that the concept does not conflict with the U.S. Constitution.

"If you go back to the original intent of the drafters ... it was never intended to bestow citizenship upon (illegal) aliens," said Kavanagh"

Did the framers of the constitution even consider illegal immigration at the time? My understanding is that any and all immigration was welcome and encouraged back then.

[Dips]

In a not too distant future...<snip>

Thank you.

Back to Greenday:

Greenday, I'm guessing that, under your proposed amendment to the constitution, that if I did not serve in the military and failed the citizenship test that I'd get to stay here as a non-citizen, correct?

If I'm not correct, please let me know what would happen to me.

[Greenday]

Supposing you were born here, I'd say create something like probationary status where you are allowed to stay. It would just have the restrictions that were previously mentioned.

[Hobbs]

If the parents come here legally, then I'm cool with it. If the parents are here ILLEGALLY, fuck them. What is your problem with protecting legal citizens from our system being overburdened by a bunch of people who have no rights to be here. Why don't you go cross the border into Mexico illegally and see how far "compassion" gets you.

The nature of the United States is to be more compassionate than others.

[crashhelmet]

Quick question: If an American citizen has a child with a non-citizen, in another country, and the parentage is not in question, is that child entitled to U.S. citizenship? (I'm thinking specifically of troops stationed overseas who have fathered a child with a local)
Note that I'm asking for the legal answer, not opinions.

Grey area, but the answer is yes assuming that you or your parents haven't forfeited your citizenship. It's citizenship through naturalization.

Second question: Quote from the articled refered to in OP:

" that the concept does not conflict with the U.S. Constitution.

"If you go back to the original intent of the drafters ... it was never intended to bestow citizenship upon (illegal) aliens," said Kavanagh"

Did the framers of the constitution even consider illegal immigration at the time? My understanding is that any and all immigration was welcome and encouraged back then.

How do you know that they didn't? There were people coming from Europe all the time in search of a "better life." We had more than just Brits coming in and building up our country.

CH