please stop proving me right...

[guywithashovel]

In other news, NOM is on tour showing that while a very (very very very) small minority of Christians support gay rights, the church as a whole still thinks we should be put to death. Thanks again for proving me right.

I'm not so sure that the Christians who support it would be a "very, very, very" small minority.

http://pewforum.org/Gay-Marriage-and...il-Unions.aspx

If this is any authority, it seems that about 45% of Catholics are supportive of gay marriage. Granted, Protestants tend to be more opposed to it, with only about 27% supporting it.

[Peppergirl]

I tend to not say much about this around here because it gives me a headache. However, here goes: I am a non-practicing catholic, a (left-leaning) republican and I support gay marriage.

[Hobbs]

I'm the same, though more right-influenced third-party (no, not those dumb-ass Tea Partiers).

[guywithashovel]

I'll reiterate this because I think it bears repeating.

If you're associating with a group organized around an ideology (as is the Republican party), then people can reasonably assume that you are, for the most part, in sync with that group's ideology. As of right now, most (though not all) Republicans are opposed to gay rights. Perhaps that will change in the future, though, but for now that's the way it is.

If you are identifying yourself as a Republican (or anything else centered around an ideology), and you're constantly having to proclaim yourself as the exception to the rule, then maybe you're associating with the wrong group.

[KnitShoni]

I'll reiterate this because I think it bears repeating.

If you're associating with a group organized around an ideology (as is the Republican party), then people can reasonably assume that you are, for the most part, in sync with that group's ideology. As of right now, most (though not all) Republicans are opposed to gay rights. Perhaps that will change in the future, though, but for now that's the way it is.

If you are identifying yourself as a Republican (or anything else centered around an ideology), and you're constantly having to proclaim yourself as the exception to the rule, then maybe you're associating with the wrong group.

So I should change who I affiliate with because there are a few things they believe that I don't agree with? If I did that with every part of my life, I'd be a recluse. No one on this planet is going to agree with everything I do.

[guywithashovel]

So I should change who I affiliate with because there are a few things they believe that I don't agree with? If I did that with every part of my life, I'd be a recluse. No one on this planet is going to agree with everything I do.

Notice that I said that we can assume they agree with MOST of their beliefs, and not ALL of their beliefs. If it's just a few things you disagree with, then of course not. It's just that when these topics come up, some people will say that they are Republican or whatever and then go on to express disagreement with most of the things the group stands for.

[Peppergirl]

Notice that I said that we can assume they agree with MOST of their beliefs, and not ALL of their beliefs. If it's just a few things you disagree with, then of course not. It's just that when these topics come up, some people will say that they are Republican or whatever and then go on to express disagreement with most of the things the group stands for.

I would agree with this, but I haven't seen anywhere in this thread where someone said something like, "I'm a xxxx, but I disagree with...." and then go on to list a whole litany of things.

As for me, I agree with the majority of Republican beliefs, but gay marriage is a big sticking point for me. This is why I (albeit laughingly) refer to myself as 'left-leaning'.

[smileyeagle1021]

. It's just that when these topics come up, some people will say that they are Republican Democrat or whatever and then go on to express disagreement with most of the things the group stands for.

So, I see that you've met Jim Matheson
Sorry, that is a major sticking point for Salt Lakers... A true Salt Laker is a social liberal, we have the lowest percentage of religiously active people in the state, have the most cultural diversity, and most importantly, we are surrounded by areas of extremely high amounts of bigotry on all sides, and almost as a knee-jerk reaction go to the side of acceptance (we pride ourselves in being the place that you can seek refuge from the evils of the rest of Utah). Then there is Jim Matheson who, while labeled a Democrat has not voted for a single Democratic bill this session (Republican senator Bennet has voted for more Democratic bills than Democrat representative Matheson).

Damn, I just threadjacked my own thread

[ExRetailDrone]

I was not alive during the Regan administration.

Ok, wait. Since you had not been born yet when Reagen helped defeat the Briggs Initiative, it's not a valid argument towards a positive change that has affected your life? Does that mean that, since I wasn't around back then, all that work that women like Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton were involved in towards the progression that eventually led to women's suffrage doesn't affect me? If it weren't for them, I would not have the freedoms as a woman that I have today, and even though I was a century plus away from being born, the movement they helped begin still has a positive impact on my life today.

[smileyeagle1021]

ExRetailDrone, if we want to argue semantics, yes, your life is better than it would have been had they not done their work, but to say that they improved your life (my definition of improved being moving to a better state of being during your own life time, not starting out at a better state)
It is still a fair argument for me to make, because I never had to worry about homosexuality being criminalized (just as you never had to worry about women not being allowed to vote)... however, in my life I do have to worry about discrimination and inequality (which you have to deal with as well, just not the same discrimination... you will end up earning 79cents to my dollar and I will be denied the right to make life and death decisions for my partner and him for me... amongst other things both of us will face).
What is important in the here and now isn't where we were, but where we are going and who and what is going to solve the inequalities that we still face.

[HYHYBT]

One thing to consider: the Republican party as a whole, or at least the parts of it which are loudest *and* tend to decide who gets to run for office, has shifted quite a bit since ReAgan was elected. As, I'm sure, have the Democrats...

[jedimaster91]

Let me first state I'm a social conservative (though NOT a card carrying Republican). I am also a Christian but despite that I believe in tolerance for gays and here's why:

<snip>

I don't believe Jesus would have ignored, spat on or otherwise hated on a Gay person. I think he would express that he disagreed with the lifestyle, but I think he'd treat that person with respect, as he did everyone else he encountered in his entire life.

Yunno, I've been trying to figure out how to express this exact viewpoint for ages. Thanks for putting into words what I couldn't.

You could always say you don't have a party.

Someone else mentioned this, but if you want to vote in primaries, you have to put down a party. I'm conservative, but I registered Democrat because not a lot of Republicans run here.

I tend to not say much <snip> around here because it gives me a headache.

You and me both. But hubs is at a meeting and I was bored.