Red light cameras..

[draggar]

They were "turned on" this week in Fort Lauderdale. I drive though two such intersections on my way to (and from) work every day. I don't mind them.

I love seeing all the complaints about how the cameras shouldn't be there. How they're infringing on their "privacy", how they should have police officers enforcing them, not the cameras.

First, if you don't run red lights then you won't have an issue. PERIOD. I've seen way too many accidents because some asshole decided to run a light when cross traffic started to go - some fatal. Looking at the positions and locations of the cars you can usually tell who ran the red light.

It's simple - don't run the f-ing red lights. I hate having to either wait or slam on my brakes because some asshole decides he's too good to stop at a red light (and clearly doesn't care about anyone else).

As for privacy - you're in your car. Anyone can see you. Not much privacy there.

[Greenday]

I'm not really sure what you can be seen doing in your car that'd be considered both private and legal at the same time.

[protege]

First, if you don't run red lights then you won't have an issue. PERIOD.

Don't be so sure of that. Locally, we have a couple of red-light cameras...and there have been a couple of cases of people *not* running the lights, and still getting tickets. I've heard of a few people that have been ticketed for going through *yellow* lights, which, IIRC is legal.

[draggar]

Don't be so sure of that. Locally, we have a couple of red-light cameras...and there have been a couple of cases of people *not* running the lights, and still getting tickets. I've heard of a few people that have been ticketed for going through *yellow* lights, which, IIRC is legal.

There was a huge deal in Palm Beach (well, a city's mayor made it a big deal because they were caught) over the "right turn on red after stop" issue. Sure, 99.99% of the people making a right on red do NOT stop but they suspended it.

They should be triggered if you enter the intersection after the light turns red, this means you did have enough time to stop (assuming you're driving safely).

[drunkenwildmage]

We have had them for about 5 years. Around here, they are set so that they will ticket you if you *don't* clear the intersection before the light turns red.., it's still considered a volition if the light turns red, and you are still in the intersection...with that being said, the T-bone accidents did go down, but rear end collisions did go up, so as far as preventing accidents they really didn't do that, just moved them to a different part of the intersection.

[jedimaster91]

Don't be so sure of that. Locally, we have a couple of red-light cameras...and there have been a couple of cases of people *not* running the lights, and still getting tickets. I've heard of a few people that have been ticketed for going through *yellow* lights, which, IIRC is legal.

Depends on your state, I think. I know in Kentucky as long as you enter the intersection before the light turns red, it's still legal. Mr Jedi says that's not the case in Idaho.

[draggar]

Depends on your state, I think. I know in Kentucky as long as you enter the intersection before the light turns red, it's still legal. Mr Jedi says that's not the case in Idaho.

NH, MA, ME, and FL are like this, too.

I think I might have seen one of the first offenders this morning, too. At one of the intersections I go though the light to turn left turned red. 3-4 seconds later an SUV went speeding though - mind you, 3 seconds after one light turns red, the light for other people turns green so he did risk an accident by doing this.

[Bronzebow]

There was a huge deal in Palm Beach (well, a city's mayor made it a big deal because they were caught) over the "right turn on red after stop" issue. Sure, 99.99% of the people making a right on red do NOT stop but they suspended it.

They should be triggered if you enter the intersection after the light turns red, this means you did have enough time to stop (assuming you're driving safely).

Don't be so sure of that either.

First off, there has been research done that links increased crash and injury rates with red light cameras. Pay special attention to what this article mentions about yellow lights:
http://hscweb3.hsc.usf.edu/health/now/?p=404

More stories on the shortening of yellow lights to increase publc hazard conditions and red light camera revenue. Well, besides what I've seen in my own town, where at one time there was a whole stretch of road where the yellow lights last roughly 2.0 seconds on a 40MPH limit (only where there are cameras, though):
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in558431.shtml
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/200...31629539.shtml

And another shortened yellow light in Dallas, TX:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/20/2068.asp

And camera abuse in California:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/00/13.asp


Studies have consistently shown that lengthening yellow lights actually prevents more accidents than traffic cameras. However, this does not increase revenue for cities, so....yeah:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-10458570-71.html

So, in short: you do not always have time to stop safely. Red light cameras actually decrease road safety and are shown time and time again to be nothing but an engineered means to force you to break the law gain revenue.

[draggar]

Shortening the amount of time lights are yellow should be illegal - plus it is not safe. The time should be the same in the general area (one of your srticles mentioned 4 seconds - which seems about right in most areas I've driven in). The sad part is who can enforce the law the law enforcers are supposed to abide by? This is corruption and shouldn't be tolerated by the drivers.

As for accidents, it's because people aren't paying attention when driving and either slam on their brakes at the last second or they rear-end someone thinking they will also run the red light. I'm sure we have plenty of that here already. Adding the cameras only makes people less willing to run red lights.

New Hampshire has a brilliant way to help drivers gauge if they can safely stop or not, especially on multi lane roads (Florida does NOT do this).

They figure out the distance a car needs to safely stop from the speed limit in the time the light goes from yellow to red. On multi lane roads there are dashed white lines inbetween the lanes - when they got the distance they made it a solid white line. If you're in back of the line, you should be able to stop. If you're past it, go though (again, assuming normal driving conditions and no speeds way off the speed limit - if your car is very slow (towing etc..) then you need less room to stop).

[Kimmik]

Depends on your state, I think. I know in Kentucky as long as you enter the intersection before the light turns red, it's still legal. Mr Jedi says that's not the case in Idaho.

Yellow Light: Caution. An amber or yellow light warns that the signal is
about to change to red. If you have not entered the intersection and can
come to a safe stop, you should do so. If you are already in the
intersection, you should continue moving and clear it safely.

Yeah that confused me cause if you start to stop at a yellow in California you are going to be smacked in the ass.

[Dreamstalker]

At one of the intersections I go though the light to turn left turned red. 3-4 seconds later an SUV went speeding though - mind you, 3 seconds after one light turns red, the light for other people turns green so he did risk an accident by doing this.

I see stunts like this all the time. One of the reasons I tend to wait a few seconds after pedestrians get the light before I cross; you have no idea if some moron is going to turn you into road pizza.

[draco664]

First, if you don't run red lights then you won't have an issue. PERIOD.

That particular sentiment lasts until the city/county/whatever shorten the amber light time to raise revenue.

Any time I hear the phrase 'If you don't do X, you won't have an issue', I always think, 'Yeah, what happens when they change X?' It happens with depressing regularity. Govs bring in laws to great fanfare, saying that they'll only be used against the worst of the worst. And then, once they're established, their remit is expanded quietly.

Case in point - the anti terrorism laws in the UK. For some reason, local councils were invoking them to track people who were suspected of claiming a different address to get their kids into better schools.

draggar, I like your posts, but your opinion above is very naive.

[draggar]

That particular sentiment lasts until the city/county/whatever shorten the amber light time to raise revenue.

Any time I hear the phrase 'If you don't do X, you won't have an issue', I always think, 'Yeah, what happens when they change X?' It happens with depressing regularity. Govs bring in laws to great fanfare, saying that they'll only be used against the worst of the worst. And then, once they're established, their remit is expanded quietly.

Case in point - the anti terrorism laws in the UK. For some reason, local councils were invoking them to track people who were suspected of claiming a different address to get their kids into better schools.

draggar, I like your posts, but your opinion above is very naive.

You should read my later post, too:

Shortening the amount of time lights are yellow should be illegal - plus it is not safe. The time should be the same in the general area (one of your articles mentioned 4 seconds - which seems about right in most areas I've driven in). The sad part is who can enforce the law the law enforcers are supposed to abide by? This is corruption and shouldn't be tolerated by the drivers.

[draco664]

You should read my later post, too:

I did.

Shortening the amber should be illegal? What if the road conditions change? What if the zoning changes? There are legitemate reasons to shorten timing of lights. Blanket statements like that are silly. (and yes, I am aware of the irony of that being a blanket statement)

I dare say you meant it in the context of 'raising renenue' at the cost of safety, which I agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, it's one of those things that take far more effort to undo than most people are willing to invest. Joe Public generally doesn't care so long as his favourite tv shows aren't interrupted.

[Greenday]

The only "condition" where yellow lights should be shortened is if the speed limit is lowered. Since that's obvious not the case, I can't think of one valid reason to shorten a yellow light.