DREAM Act: A soon to be reality or keep dreaming

[blas87]

Of course cutting the head off the snake is the easiest way to kill the problem, but how do we go about all the companies who do hire illegals and it's more than public knowledge, and a blind eye is turned? That's almost worse than the border jumpers and their sneaking in. There is a company not too far from here, even up in Farmville Wisconsin, where a bus takes illegals back and forth from Texas back to Mexico, from Texas to back here to work every few weeks. And nothing is done about it.

[FArchivist]

Well, they will lose money if an illegal immigrant who would otherwise be paying out-of-state tuition will now be allowed to pay in-state tuition. Of course, not many people can afford out-of-state tuition out of pocket, so.....hrm.

Going by here in GA, the only thing that bars you from getting in-state tuition in the first place is your length of residence in the state. So long as you've lived here for a year, you can get in-state tuition. *shrugs* That contributes to my viewpoint that this is more a sop than anything else.

I'm not 100%, but I think with federal financial aid the school is getting money, they're just getting the money from the federal government and not the student. Same with a private scholarship.

Speaking as a recipient of federal financial aid, all monies from grants and loans come through the school and are given directly to the student, who then uses that money to write a check/slip a credit card right back to the university.

Um, moving and living here illegally IS a crime and should not be rewarded with freebies when true Americans can hardly keep food on the table and heat in the house.

It's not called illegal immigration because it sounds fancy. It's illegal. Period.

Illegal =/= criminal.
Breaking a contract is illegal according to contract law, but it is not a crime.
Violating OSHA regulations is illegal, but it is not a crime.
Illegal actions are not necessarily criminal in nature. It's only a crime if it's criminal. Otherwise, it's just illegal.

As per the statements of the US Dept Of Justice via US Attorney Christopher Christie:

"Being in this country without proper documentation is not a crime," Christie told more than 60 residents and town officials. "The whole phrase of 'illegal immigrant' connotes that the person, by just being here, is committing a crime.
Being undocumented may be a civil wrong, but it's not a criminal act."

"Don't let people make you believe that that's a crime that the U.S. Attorney's Office should be doing something about," he added of entering the country illegally. "It is not."

What we need to put in the rivers by the border are tons of alligators and we need to build higher fences and arm border patrol and allow them to at least tear gas or rubber bullet trespassers. If you pulled a stunt like that in any other country, you'd be held in incarceration for a year or more, like the hikers overseas. Why is it not a big deal that a family of Mexicans go running across the border, but if you try to sneak into Canada, you'd be arrested on the spot?

1) Those countries that imprison hikers and such are generally places like North Korea and Iran, which are not known for their human rights records. These seizures are usually politically motivated and would otherwise result merely in deportation otherwise.

2) Keep in mind that the more people we imprison, the more we pay in taxes. Most people aren't interested in paying for more prisons and prisoners than we already are.

3) I have no disagreement with strengthening the border. I also have no idea why the Senators of border states, like John McCain, continually vote against further funding for the Border Patrol and border efforts.

At any rate, illegal immigration is a statute violation, like speeding. It's not a federal crime.

Of course cutting the head off the snake is the easiest way to kill the problem, but how do we go about all the companies who do hire illegals and it's more than public knowledge, and a blind eye is turned? <snip> And nothing is done about it.

No and nothing ever will, because the politicians and businessmen consider profits to be more important than some federal statute that you'll pay a fine for at best. If the cost of paying a fine for being caught is less than the profit made from using illegal immigrant labor, then you logically know what the business is going to do.

[AdminAssistant]

Speaking as a recipient of federal financial aid, all monies from grants and loans come through the school and are given directly to the student, who then uses that money to write a check/slip a credit card right back to the university.

That's odd. I do get some federal loans (don't qualify for Pell Grants because I'm a grad student, which is bullshit). They give the money to the university, then the university applies that money to whatever I owe them*, then gives me the refund.

* My tuition is paid, but I do have to pay some fees.

[boringscreenname]

This information is from Wikipedia:

According to the 2009 version of the senate bill, DREAM Act beneficiaries must:

Have proof of having arrived in the United States before age 16.
Have proof of residence in the United States for a least five consecutive years since their date of arrival, compliance with Selective Service.
Be between the ages of 12 and 35 at the time of bill enactment.
Have graduated from an American high school or obtained a GED.
Be of "good moral character"

During the first six years, qualifying illegal immigrants would be granted "conditional" status, and would be required to graduate from a two-year community college or complete at least two years towards a 4-year degree, or serve two years in the U.S. military. After the six year period, the illegal immigrants who met at least one of these three conditions would be eligible to apply for legal permanent resident status. During this six year conditional period, the illegal immigrants would not be eligible for federal higher education grants such as Pell grants, but they would be able to apply for student loans and work study

If the illegal immigrants did not meet the educational or military service requirement within the six year time period, their temporary residency would be revoked and they could be deported. They also must not commit any crimes other than those considered non-drug related misdemeanors, regardless of whether or not they have already been approved for permanent status at the end of their six years. Being convicted of a major crime, or drug-related infraction would automatically remove the six year temporary residence status and they would be subject to deportation.

If the illegal immigrants met all of the conditions at the end of the 6-year conditional period, they would be granted permanent residency, which would eventually allow them to become U.S. citizens

I'm not sure why people think that they are getting freebies or handouts. Basically the government is saying, if you are willing to meet these guidelines, and put in the effort then we will help you obtain higher education and legal citizenship, both of which I think are great things.

Nowhere does it state that people would be eligible for a free ride or free money. Actually if you read what I posted it says that they will not be eligible for federal grants, but will be able to apply for private loans and work study programs, so I don't see how the colleges would be losing out on money. They would still be getting money, and private loans must be paid pack, thus holding the student financially responsible for their higher education not the government.

Personally I feel that this act is very reasonable, and that it will give people an opportunity to have a better life, and a higher education legally. And also it never hurts to remember that illegal immigration is not a new problem, Native Americans used to call it "white people."

[FArchivist]

And there goes fact from boringscreenname that pretty much kills all argument. Duh. I should have looked it up on the Wiki first.

[boringscreenname]

Not sure if that was sarcasm or not, but here's a more credible link that dispells all the myths and answers FAQ's about the Dream Act. http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/jus...ream-act-myths

[FArchivist]

Not sure if that was sarcasm or not, but here's a more credible link that dispells all the myths and answers FAQ's about the Dream Act. http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/jus...ream-act-myths

Nah, no sarcasm at all. I should have thought to look it up first.

[blas87]

Apparently, Jeb Bush is really into illegal immigrants and is against English-only, as was on the Laura Ingraham show yesterday.

There is a reason on the Lil Bush cartoon, they portrayed him as a retard.

[Greenday]

And it gets shot down in the senate. Missed by like half a dozen votes.